Yesterday I took the front clip off my 67. I knew she had been hit before I got her in 1982, but I didn't realize there was hidden damage. There doesn't seem to be a lot of rust or anything and the fender bolt spots don't seem to be altered. My question is whether or not I need to pull this dent out? If you can't see it when the fender is on, it is not causing further rust and the fender bolts on properly, do I need to go to the trouble and expense to try and pull this out?

Of course I'd like for it to be completely "right", but my body skills are pretty limited at this point. I would be happy to learn but time and budget are also limited. Do you forsee any trouble if I don't pull it out, or cut and replace?


H.

That panel is available but requires welding skills to replace.....along with drilling out spot welds......You can go either way....It does not effect finished project and only you will know it is there.....well maybe a few members here also....You will find surface rust behind it.....so a complete job would call for replacement.....difficult panel to pull out and repair better off replacing....

I replaced both tulip panels on my '69, inners and outers. When in there the only probelm that damage may cause is the astro vent may not open fully. As for stuctural, looks like the strength is still in the panel provided your fender lines properly up at the bottom.

If you really want to repair this section you can buy this tulip panel and find it is exceptionally easy to install.

The tulip panel shouldn't be very difficult to replace. But it looks like you may have some damage to the lower part of the firewall. If you can fabricate sheet metal, or know someone who can help, that repair won't be too tough to pull off. Or you may be able to just straighten the bent sheet metal out when you get the tulip panel off.

As far as firewall damage, I think it is all cosmetic, but if I knew for sure, I wouldn't be bugging you guys about it. <BIG GRIN> I've added more photos below. Also, I think the natural curve of the panel makes the damage look a little worse than it really is. I've also added a photo of the passenger side for comparison. Any more thoughts?

H.

Herby,

If it were my car, I would drill out the spot welds, clean up and treat the inside of the tulip box, and replace that outer skin that was dented. Not bad at all, and I am no pro either. Just a few plug welds and it will be done (unless you have a nice spot welder)

Herby,

If it were my car, I would drill out the spot welds, clean up and treat the inside of the tulip box, and replace that outer skin that was dented. Not bad at all, and I am no pro either. Just a few plug welds and it will be done (unless you have a nice spot welder)


I agree with Todd- in other words, I'd want to do it right- leaving hidden damage is like sweeping dirt under the carpet. And I think it is going to be prone to rust. You have the front clip off. That's half the work, right there.

OK guys. You are right. I'll go ahead and replace it. It is kind of funny that I've had the car for 27 years and never knew the damage was there. :o

Since I'm new at this, can someone give me a quick run down on the process? What you've told me so far sounds pretty easy, But it can't be as simple as ordering a new one, cut out the old one and weld in the new panel...right? I'm all ears if somebody wants to list out any other considerations or things to watch out for. Thanks in advance!

H.

It's not that simple and if you've done collision work and worked on a frame machine you would know you simply cannot drill out a panel and pop a new one in it's place where a hit has occured. The firewall is damaged on this car too, at the very least. It's crushed and distorted.The hit needs to be pulled properly as much as possible with the structure in place AS PER STANDARD PRACTICE. Pulls are done before you start drilling the structure apart. Only when part of the structure can be straightened by simple hammering and dolly work can you pop off and replace another part of the structure. In this case the outermost panel. Even if you take off the outer panel you now have the firewall to contend with. Do you have a means of pulling it and hammering it while under pressure to straighten it? This is where a machine is in order or floor pots and a Power Post. (Why I suggest when hobbiests are building a garage to put pots in or add them). If you drill out that outer panel and expect the new one, aftermarket no less, to fit easily you may be in for a surprise and frustration. This is where people get into trouble and wonder why panels don't jive when fixing a hit.

It's not that simple and if you've done collision work and worked on a frame machine you would know you simply cannot drill out a panel and pop a new one in it's place where a hit has occured. The firewall is damaged on this car too, at the very least. It's crushed and distorted.The hit needs to be pulled properly as much as possible with the structure in place AS PER STANDARD PRACTICE. Pulls are done before you start drilling the structure apart. Only when part of the structure can be straightened by simple hammering and dolly work can you pop off and replace another part of the structure. In this case the outermost panel. Even if you take off the outer panel you now have the firewall to contend with. Do you have a means of pulling it and hammering it while under pressure to straighten it? This is where a machine is in order or floor pots and a Power Post. (Why I suggest when hobbiests are building a garage to put pots in or add them). If you drill out that outer panel and expect the new one, aftermarket no less, to fit easily you may be in for a surprise and frustration. This is where people get into trouble and wonder why panels don't jive when fixing a hit.

Nope, I've got no way to pull it and hammer it out under pressure. What would be the next best way to take care of it?

H.

PM sent.

H.

What was said "may" be true in the worst case scenario--yes. However, from what your pics show, I would say that it's not that terrible. The tulips panels that I bought through Belair Bob fit beautifully. I had no issues with them and I am a novice at body panel repair. I would at least drill out the spot welds and then see what you have. You can't lose anything by doing that, and then at least then you will have a better understanding of how that piece is constructed and a better frame of mind for making a further decision. Hope you're not scared now... and jump the gun based on a couple of scary posts.. It doesn't look too bad at all...:noway:

No it's not terrible. And I think people should learn how to do things if they are driven. They should also know all the possiblities before they go cutting apart a hit with no bodywork or collision experience. This way there are no disappointments and they fully understand any obsticals that they may encounter. I've had to bail too many people out and repair my share of butchered cars. I commend those for their determination and persistance.

H.

What Scott said "may" be true in the worst case scenario--yes. However, from what your pics show, I would say that it's not that terrible. The tulips panels that I bought through Belair Bob fit beautifully. I had no issues with them and I am a novice at body panel repair. I would at least drill out the spot welds and then see what you have. You can't lose anything by doing that, and then at least then you will have a better understanding of how that piece is constructed and a better frame of mind for making a further decision. Hope you're not scared now... and jump the gun based on a couple of scary posts.. It doesn't look too bad at all...:noway:

Sorry, it is too late. I sold the car and I'm going to buy one of those little import cars with the loud muffler that sounds like a chainsaw! l:)

Ok, seriously, you guys have at the very least talked me into fixing it right. I'm certain that with a little help from you guys on TC and a couple of friends that are good fabricators, I'll be able to work something out. Plus, I've already been talking to Bel Air Bob about placing an order for the new parts...fenders, radiator support, tulip, maybe even a rear quarter or two! She'll be like new eventually, and I hope to never tear her down this far again, so I need to do it right! :thumbsup:

Thanks for all your input!

H.

Any time... I am no body pro, but I am handy and willing, so I am not against learning how to do anything on my Camaro. Anything... You'll love it even more when it's done! :yes: and post some pics! :hurray::hurray:

No it's not terrible. And I think people should learn how to do things if they are driven. They should also know all the possiblities before they go cutting apart a hit with no bodywork or collision experience. This way there are no disappointments and they fully understand any obsticals that they may encounter. I've had to bail too many people out and repair my share of butchered cars. I commend those for their determination and persistance.


I can completely see your point too. I briefly worked at a Toyota Body shop locally for about 4 months and learned a great deal of things I never knew. It was amazing to see what technologies and techniques those guys are capable of. A bodyman is truly an artist.

I just went through this on my '68, which had more damage then your pictures show, and had to replace both the inner and outer cowl side. I don't see a way that you would be able to get away with just replacing the outer - where the indentation is in the outer has also put a good-sized dent in the inner, and it would probably be very difficult to massage that out to fit a new outer (not that it would be impossible). I'm pretty much a newbie at bodywork (this was the second project I did after replacing both sides of the floor), but it wasn't too bad. There are a lot of spot welds attaching the inner cowl side to the rest of the structure - the hardest part was finding them all to drill out. If the seams aren't split, and the cowl is still sealed (you want this area sealed so the HVAC system isn't pulling air from the engine compartment), I would leave it. Or, if you're like me and the thought of an imperfect panel hiding under the fender gnaws away at you, then I would see if you can remove the outer without damaging the inner and see how a replacement panel fits up against the inner.

I just went through this on my '68, which had more damage then your pictures show, and had to replace both the inner and outer cowl side. I don't see a way that you would be able to get away with just replacing the outer - where the indentation is in the outer has also put a good-sized dent in the inner, and it would probably be very difficult to massage that out to fit a new outer (not that it would be impossible). I'm pretty much a newbie at bodywork (this was the second project I did after replacing both sides of the floor), but it wasn't too bad. There are a lot of spot welds attaching the inner cowl side to the rest of the structure - the hardest part was finding them all to drill out. If the seams aren't split, and the cowl is still sealed (you want this area sealed so the HVAC system isn't pulling air from the engine compartment), I would leave it. Or, if you're like me and the thought of an imperfect panel hiding under the fender gnaws away at you, then I would see if you can remove the outer without damaging the inner and see how a replacement panel fits up against the inner.

I'd love to see photos of your repair if possible.

I've not taken the panel off yet, but I believe when you order one, it comes with the inner and the outer...right? Here's a link to Belair Bob's ebay listing for a LH Tulip, number 380135739716 (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1967-1969-Camaro-Cowl-Tulip-Panel_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el111 6QQhashZitem5881db1144QQitemZ380135739716QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories).

So if both come when I order a tulip, I dig in and figure out which part(s) need replacement and go from there right? The more I study the damage, the less I believe the firewall is damaged, so hopefully it will be leaning to the easier side vs the more difficult to repair.

I'm still all ears because I haven't decided what to do for certain.

I'd love to see photos of your repair if possible.

I've not taken the panel off yet, but I believe when you order one, it comes with the inner and the outer...right? Here's a link to Belair Bob's ebay listing for a LH http://rover.ebay.com/ar/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?mpt=508966978&adtype=1&size=1x1&type=3&campid=5336121784&toolid=10001 Tulip, number 380135739716 (http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-53200-19255-0/1?type=3&campid=5336121784&toolid=10001&mpre=http%3A%2F%2Fcgi.ebay.com%2Febaymotors%2F1967-1969-Camaro-Cowl-Tulip-Panel_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp3286Q2em20Q2el111 6QQhashZitem5881db1144QQitemZ380135739716QQptZMoto rsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories).

So if both come when I order a tulip, I dig in and figure out which part(s) need replacement and go from there right? The more I study the damage, the less I believe the firewall is damaged, so hopefully it will be leaning to the easier side vs the more difficult to repair.

I'm still all ears because I haven't decided what to do for certain.


You can get either just the outer skin, or the entire tulip panel as a repro. They offer both. I would first take it apart to see exactly what you need.

See my thread earlier on, or browse through my photobucket account for TONS of photos of that repair panel. I replaced both sides...