Me and my buddy are going to try and race stock cars, in the hobby stock class. We don't know much about it but are excited to learn. We have a 83 grand prix that has been gutted and the roll bar welded in. We have a 350 ci. block and a 2 sp powerglide. The block casting is # 3970010. The engine can only have up to a 350 cfm carb so I can't see the hp to be very high but it will see a lot of constant rpms. It looks to me like a 2 bolt block but it would be great if someone could post a picture of a 2 or 4 bolt block. My buddy bought the engine already and was told it was a 4 bolt block.

I was wondering if anybody here has done this kind of racing, if so where did you get info on how to set up the drivetrain and other things on the car.

Are you sure it's a 350ci?

3970010....302.....69....4-bolt...Z-28 Camaro
3970010....327.....69....2-bolt...Trucks and industrial
3970010....350...69-80...2 or 4-bolt

If it's a 1969 302ci, it might be worth some bucks to someone restoring their early Camaro! smile.gif

Originally posted by CanCamaro:
It looks to me like a 2 bolt block but it would be great if someone could post a picture of a 2 or 4 bolt block. My buddy bought the engine already and was told it was a 4 bolt block.Well, turn it upside down and count the bolts on the main caps...

4-bolt has 4 bolts, 2-bolt has, you guessed it, 2 bolts
http://home.earthlink.net/~chris255/4bolts.jpg

Thanks Chris the picture helped convince him. Anybody have any suggestions on what to do to the motor to produce the max amount of power and stay some what within these rules(guidelines):

360 cu. In. engine maximum, Flat top pistons only, GM cars - approved steel head numbers are: 014, 195, 267, 330, 336, 388, 393, 441, 445, 454, 487, 493, 545, 598, 624, 642,709, 799, 813, 862, 881, 882, 920, 991, 993, 997 -- Must be 76 cc heads or larger
1. The engine must appear strictly stock for the model and make and in the original mounts. Stroke must match the block. Cylinder heads must be unaltered approved OEM. No porting, polishing or alterations of any kind to heads or intake.

2. Must have approved OEM cast iron two-barrel intake. Four-barrel intake allowed with tow barrel space adapter. No slider adapter. Maximum 1 1/4 inch in steel or aluminum. No headers, must be cast iron exhaust manifolds. No center dump type manifolds. Exhaust must extend past the firewall. Must remain duel exhaust, no crossover or "Y" pipes allowed.

3. No electrical fuel pumps allowed. Aluminum radiators allowed. Only one radiator allowed. No nodular iron or aluminum flywheels. No aluminum water pumps on GM cars. No roller tip rocker arms. No roller lifters. No stud girdles. Any overflow tubes are to be directed to the ground, between the frame rails. Mufflers are recommended. Accumulators and accusumps must be mounted under the hood. Starter must bolt in the stock location.

4. All cars must run a 2-barrel Holley 350 cfm, 7448 Holley or Dorton 0-800787. May remove choke, but no other alterations allowed. Illegal carbs can be confiscated. (Track option)

This is all new to me so if anybody out there has any info about this sport or how to get info don't be shy.

Thanks Dino smile.gif

Any pictures of a two bolt block

a 2 bolt bottom end looks like the 4 bolt bottom end, but without the outer bolts.
those rules seem pretty basic, but i love how they say "no aluminum water pumps on GM vehicles". what if you are running a GM engine that has an oem aluminum water pump- say, like a Buick (i know, who runs one of those?). but still.
the rules don't say enything about camshaft- talk to a good cam company and get the wildest cam that will work with the heads/intake/exhaust setup you are allowed. get the block "zero decked" and use some "claimer" 2 valve relief flat top pistons with the thinnest head gaskets you can find to get the most compression possible. get the bottom end balanced, of course.
don't expect to win anything for a while- this will be a money-pit of a hobby, unless you can manage to learn fast and get some sponsorshp.
most of all, have fun. and try not to anger the other racers on the track too much by making too many "dumb rookie" moves. you want them to be your friends..

Malibu Mike over on the Team Chevelle site might be able to help you out. He has some interest in roundy round.
Milan

The rules are pretty cut and dry. Of course all the real fast cars will be bending the rules slightly (as with most forms of racing). I am sure there is a rule that says no Nitrous, right? :D

Seriously I like what Novaderrik said about decking etc.. another thing to do is make the most of the 360ci rule, bore it to take advantage of that, also think about running 6" rods. Make as much compression as you can (within the rules) is there a rule that says your valves can't be a little thicker that stock (this would take up some of the combustion chamber and give you a little more compression) every little bit counts when racing by the rules. Since you are new to it, driving is going to make the biggest difference, they could let you put a blown big block in there and you probably will still get lapped until you get the hang of it. I am not knocking you I would be the same way I'm sure. Make as much power as you can but keep the costs to a minimum until you get the hang of driving and see if you want to stick with it.

As always, I am an idiot. The block is indeed a 4 bolt block, I went over and took anouther look and found out I was wrong. The caps I was looking at were the caps on each end of the block, not the ones in the middle. graemlins/clonk.gif With the 4 bolt block would it be worth the extra money to run ARP studs.

This is what we are thnking to do to the motor:

BLOCK
-350 ci. 30 over
-stock cast crank
-stock rods
-cast flat top piston (no valve reliefs if possible)
-double roller timing chain
-zero deck the block (maybe not right to zero but close)
-thin head gasket (15 thou)
-stock oil pump
-stock oil pan (windage tray?)
-Bottom end balanced
-Unsure on the cam?

HEADS
-76cc
-stock valves 1.94 intake 1.50 exhaust
-3 angle valve job
-Hardened push rods(overkill do you think)
-stock rocker arms
-valve springs to match cam

-stock cast 2 barrel intake
-Holley 2 barrel 350 cfm carb
-stock HEI dist. with accel coil

Does anybody have any Idea How much all this work is going to cost(need to get a line of credit for it)

Do you guys thing this motor would hold up to the abuse.

Thanks again

Dino

[ 10-28-2003, 09:37 PM: Message edited by: CanCamaro ]

A lot of people use 305 heads on a 350 to boost compression. I believe you want #416 305H.O. heads. Chamber size is 58 cc's before angle milling to boost compression even more. Ask around and get the correct rear gears for the car.

Sorry, I just reread your post and saw minimum 76cc heads, so that rules out this trick. I think I would run exhaust manifolds from a 90's truck. I also am curious about running a high rise, cast iron intake, that is a clone of the aluminum Z28 manifold. I've seen it available from Scoggin Dickey.


You can still make some power with that small of carb. Busch cars only run a 390cfm 4 barrel.

[ 10-29-2003, 02:25 AM: Message edited by: TJS69 ]