hey peeps, im new here so my bad if this has been asked before, which im sure it has.

aight, i convinced a friend of mine to get himself one of the late 80's camaros instead of the honda crx he wanted badly. thing is, we r buying the car from a junker, hopefully without the engine and the trans to lower the cost. we plan on rebuilding it as much as possible.

my main concerns are these..... i refuse to use the stock engine cuz i have read n heard MANY complaints that the engine is virtually **** at being ATLEAST decently economical (one guy even said he had around 13mpg on highway, while the newer camaros can get around 18mpg highway factory rated). so i thought it would be best to start with another engine that had a better base fuel efficiency. all in all, we decided for an LS1, but i wanna know how much it costs to buy it in a pretty much dismantled condition, since i wanna strenghten everything and have it ported n polished, as well as balanced. so around how much would the block and heads cost with only stuff that wouldnt get replaced by aftermarket stuff normally? (ie: valve springs, bearings, pistons, rods, etc., but not replacing the crankshaft so that can stay tongue.gif ).

how hard or easy is it to fit the LS1 into the late 80's camaro?

also, wat r great companies that sell parts for domestic cars mainly? (im an import person, sorry)

good transmission that can be fitted in and hooked up?

oh n my bad, i should have said this sooner. hes aiming for around 450 RWHP MAXIMUM, but using an SC. thing is, this is his very first car, n to top it off, its gonna be stick and will bear a heavy clutch, n hes never driven stick before.... nor a RWD. i know how hard it can be to control one of these cars if u dont know how to control them, and its practically impossible when u r learning to drive. i know wat comments u will all say, just dont (he's suicidal, let him be happy, i already had a LONG talk with the kid). anyhow, im a turbo person, so can SC's have their boost regulated with a boost controller (ie: an electronic controller inside the car), or does it HAVE to be all controlled by the pulley?

ill thank everyone that posts a positive and a helpfull comment, n im sorry for asking so much, but its my first time working like this with a domestic vehicle, actually first time working with a pushrod tongue.gif , so i dont wanna have any last minute situations. ive tried other forums, but people either just start flaming and start a corvette vs viper comparison conversation, or just wont help at all.

thanks guys, i hope i can get some help here :D

If this is your first time than I would not try swapping an LS1 into a 3rd gen Camaro. It is not a good "first project" kind of job . . . special oil pan, engine mounts, headers, etc.

Personally, I would look at getting the 330 HP 350 cid crate engine or similar from GM and use a TH350 trans. You should be able to make that work using the stock motor mounts, accessory pulleys, etc (would need a special trans mount that is available in the aftermarket) -- I'd get a Camaro with the engine and trans still in it though (maybe not running?) so you have all the brackets, nuts, and bolts already there ready for the swap. The little stuff can really add up if you start with just a rolling chassis.

its alright actually. i told the neighbor i would be trying my best with this, its just my first time with a domestic, not any type of car tongue.gif , so i pretty much have an idea. the neighbor has done various swaps.... i would tell ya how many but hes already almost in his mid 50's i think, so i wouldnt know tongue.gif . ive seen 6 of his cars already, and his daily driver is the El Camino with the IROC engine. ill ask him for some pictures cuz it looks so damn nice n clean, n moves well too. so if i have any problem with the mounts, he promised to give a hand. so my problem bout figuring out how to make everything fit is taken care of ;) .

but thx for the info!

btw, ive had a look at crate engines n stuff, n they r too pricey for wat we r doing. i can probably get the neighbor to find me one for like.... $300, maybe less (yea, we know THAT many people).

i forgot something lol, i wanted to know how much torque the 88 camaro stock driveshaft can hold?

The LS1 swap would be tough. It is very different than merely swapping engines. You would also have to get a matching transmission, as the Gen III smallblocks have a different pattern than the Gen I-II's. Which pretty much means T-56 or 4L60-E. If you go manual (T-56) then you will have to consider modifying the trans tunnel for the shifter to come through. And you will probably have to do some driveshaft modifications to get the proper length/angle.

If he wants 450RWHP, expect to replace the rear end with a 12 bolt or 9". The stock axle will not hold.

Just an FYI, none of this stuff can be had "on the cheap".

Example: The motor mounts and trans crossmember alone are $249.99.

This is a link to info on the swap:

http://www.thirdgenresource.com/91_z28_ls1_engine

Additionally, this info is mentioned in Hot Rod magazine about 4 months ago.

You can pick up an LS1 AND the tranny (you need to get them together to make this feasible, or at least have one) for approx. $4500 to $6000 at MANY swap meets. Just saw four of them at Mr Goodguys in Indy. You want the WHOLE package, complete from one car, say a later F-body or Vette... injectors, rail, computer, and engine with tranny.

Now... DON'T do this. I don't mean to sound like an old fart, but I don't believe you are going to find this fun with your level of experience, and it is totally unneccesary given your goals.

I have a STOCK TPI 87 IROC that gets 24 mpg on the highway and 17 mpg city driving it like a maniac to boot, at least in town.

There are a sh*%load of 5.7L engines out there, along with 700r4 tranny's, and the TPI systems along with all this hardware will BOLT RIGHT IN that chevy! With VORTEC heads at 500 dollars A PAIR!!! And a vigilante converter and Transgo shiftkit with the vette servo, and a rear end around 3.43, you can dip into 12's, AND street it everywhere. THe 87 700r4 is the best of the production third gen tranny's, and will go around 4-450 hp before you start to break things.

Last but not least, if you go to www.thirdgen.org (http://www.thirdgen.org)
you will have EVERY possible bit of help you could ever want or find to make your dream for this car happen.

IMHO

yea it can be had cheap, i just call up another friend n im done tongue.gif

he got his CF driveshaft, a 1986 with a 2JZ engine (MK4 Supra engine for those of u who might not know) for just $350.

anyhow, i personally dont feel too sure about letting him have that much power just yet..... hes going to learn how to drive stick in that thing... n hes umm.... not the smart type ok? but who am i to take away his happiness?

anyhow, im sure the neighbor knows how much of a pain it is to do such engine swaps in these cars, u could say his hobby is doing these kinds of things to domestics.

anyhow, i was sure something wouldnt hold that much peak power. can the axle be replaced with another car's axle?

another thing, any other engine swaps that r just as good and may be less problematic? just asking so i can have a nice array of options.

my bad jethro, i was writing my previous reply while u typed in urs, so i saw it just now after i posted my reply tongue.gif

anyhow, this aint my dream, its the kid's dream, n i promised his mom i would try my best to keep his mouth shut.... and keep him safe n sound (somehow.....).

also, i dont live in the states, n we dont have swap meets over here in PR, but finding the engine and trans is no problem for me. i also find anything to do with vehicles fun, even if its just a quick change of oil n filter. beats going to college n paying attention to the profs. ill have a look around that site n see wat seems more convinient.

i personally hate the idea of engine swaps, wether its a domestic or an import, but well, im trying as hard as i can to keep everything on the safe side. how much can the stock iroc engine hold and how well is it on the realiability factor? (PS: proper maintainance will be given to it, else ill kill him personally for not doing so).

Stock engine in an 1988 Camaro is junk? Who told you that? Well, theres about 4 different engines that coulda came in a '88: 350TPI, 305TPI, 305TBI, V6. All of which get better than 13mpg and none of which are unreliable or bad in any way (aside from some being slow) New Camaros only get 18mpg on the highway? Try 29mpg.

Swapping in an LS1 is by far the most inpractical thing you could ever do. 450RWHP AND the kid is worried about gas mileage? That just doesn't go together.

Get 'em to buy the Honda, he'll be much happier than buying some clunky junkyard Camaro and then think he can swap in a state-of-the-art motor into it, make 450RWHP, and get good gas mileage.

I have to go along with Chris on this to some degree. To add to it, you are not going to find a used rebuildable LS1 and trans for less than a new crate and a trans to go with it. Then you still need a wiring kit and the whole thing is not a bolt in...

If you really told "the kid's" mom you would look out for him and plan on keeping your word, 300hp at the rear wheels and a stick is too much for someone that has never driven rwd or stick...

If you are serious about building a 3rd gen (or any project) you need to exam your (or the kids)resources. How much do you have to spend? You are talking a big chunk of change to build a 450rwhp drive train no matter what it's is or is in...

I think it's commendable an import guy would be looking toward a 3rd gen. My advice is get the car as complete as you can and learn about the car by making it solid and dependable. Go through everything in small projects, do what needs doing the most. By the time you've got the car in top mechanical shape the kid will have learned to respect what he has. Trust me an '88 IROC with a 5.7L is enough to be dangerous to your health.

I have a good reason for this advice, I see too many kids jump into a car the way your writing makes it sound you and your friend want to. Big HP, OD trans, the best suspension and brakes, a real dream car. You see and hear of guys doing it all the time so why not you, you're thinking. Well my answer is mistakes, we have all made them and they cost money, money in baskets are hard to come by. Most of the folks here that have done projects and have cool cars started by replacing a water pump, swaping a cam and doing a brake job on their (American RWD) daily drivers. A mistake on a small project is a small expense compared to a mistake on an engine transplant. A mistake or 3 over the course of many years is affordable compared to making them all at the same time building a project. I hope you see where I am coming from, I have a young friend that paid the same price in a single year for mistakes that I did 20 something years ago over a period of about 10 years. Even with years of import FWD wrenching under your belt you are going to find RWD, V8 American cars a test of your skills. We all learn to walk, then learn to run, hop and skip! It's the same with everything in life especially performance cars...

Buy something you can drive out of the box, and MOD it, not a total build right from the start. Add stuff like cams, gears, suspension, etc... and when your ready build another motor to go in it, maybe a really stout 383 with a 6-speed. But while you are wotking you'll still be able to drive and enjoy the car.

Trust me, Im working on my '75 and REALLY wish I hadn't gotten so exited and torn the thing apart like I did and now have a PILE of crap to put back together