Just looking for some input on the super victor and if anyone is running one, as well as the rpm air gap. Pros and Cons for both. I am currently running a Strip dominator and considering a switch to SV, motor runs well with Open plenum Redlines 7k on 383 with large duration solid cam, 10:1. What redlines have any RPM air gap users been able to achieve?

On your cubic inch displacement the Super Victor at that RPM will pull like a Banshe, all the way to and past 7k. The only real difference is that the SV will be a little soft below 3k and then from there its game on!

The Performer RPM AG, will have better low speed torque and the mid range HP will be right there with the SV. This makes its nicer to drive around town......but the SV will edge it out on the upper RPM HP, while the RPM AG will take care of the lower speed torque (below 3k).

I have run both, and like both. It came down to where and what I could sacrifice. With the suspension I am running, its not a bad idea to scrub off some of the low speed torque.....cuz it makes up for it in HP. But, I have also run an RPM AG in to 7k + and it didnt do bad. Although, it started to get a little soft on the big end (7k+) where your cubic inch displacement will need a little more mass flow. The mid range torque however was quite impressive as was the throttle response EVERYWHERE.

Street/cruise = RPM
Strip/running at high RPM alot = SV

But, both will work very well however you look at it.

Thanks Chicane, the Strip dom runs similar to what you said about sv, not much below 3 then pulls real hard 4-7K. Think I am opting for the SV. Just concerned with use of carb spacer etc since so tall, I currently use 1 inch polymer 4 hole seems to work very well and I would like to retain it. SS

Yeah I know what your saying about limited space. The SV just barely fit, and I mean barely fit using a drop base/3" cleaner and no spacer, under a stock flat hood. You could most likely squeeze a 1" spacer under a cowl induction hood.....I havent fit all of mine together yet, not to mention I still need to get the hood from Mean69......

I think your biggest gain will be in the 4k+ range. The runner shape, the plenum feeder changes and the volume made a big difference over the earlier Vic Jr. You dont really have to run a spacer, but I have found that the 1" four hole/transition to open spacer made the best numbers torque and horse power wise. :cool:

railing, interesting you should post this. i'm currently running a strip dominator on my 406, mostly because my old style vic jr wouldn't cover the intake ports on my new heads, and i had a strip dominator handy. i'm planning on going with a super vic this winter, and from what the people i have talked too say and have seen, its sounds as if the SV is truly a sweet intake, as chicane has said, and most believe it will out bottom end a strip dom. as well as top end. they are just a superior design. i personally think the strip dom. sucks, it seems to give up a lot down low. probably good for an 8k smallblock maybe. before the seasons up i may try my buddy's team g on the 406, just for comparison sake. i like the team g as well, and have had good luck with them. well anyway, let us know what you choose, and the difference it makes. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Funny about the Team G. On my 69 I swapped a 2975 Vic Jr out for a 7532 Team g (ran same carb and spacer...etc) and the car dropped an average 2 tenths. NO BS. And I gained about 1-2 MPH as well.

Too bad they didnt have the 2925 SV back then......I woulda loved to of had a comparison between the two Edelpuddle manifolds. But I do know that the overall manifold volume is larger with the 7532 TG over the 2975 VJ and the 2925 SV is larger than the 7532 TG.....so it should just rock on your CID.

It has responded VERY well to 377cid and up engines I have messed with!!!! I'll tell you that I just loved the 2925 SV on my last 355cid, it had the build to support the manifold. Too bad that build isnt really all that practical to me anymore.....it sure was fun.

Slightly Modified SV 2925 (http://www.geocities.com/tholt67/manifoldpage.html?1058166491458)

I have some other bugs to work out with my mill prior to a manifold swap, but if I need to change int manifold gaskets the SD is coming off for good. Any recommendations on gaskets, I have used med race port fel-pros prior and it has been so long I can't remember the #. Heads are cast Iron Sportmans II's. No real speed shops around here anymore so I usually end up dealing with some non-performance counterperson. Thanks, SS

FelPro 1205 is what I used.

chicane, funny you say that about the team g, thats why my buddy has one kicking around, he tried a vic jr on his 406 for grins, and picked up a tenth. i have seen it go the other way though. you know how different motors like different things. i like to hear your stories about the s/v, that reinforces everything i've heard, basically insuring one for me in the near future, after i take care of my fuel supply issue. who knows i may still give the team g a shot, since i could try it free of charge, it's always interesting doing back to back testing. but i'm still thinking s/v for sure graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Back to back testing would be great!

Your right about the specific combo responding to other parts.......I myself have seen it go both ways.

I loved the SV on my big 355cid build. Afterall, that combo did make 630ish HP on 92 octane. I was actually talked into this manifold by Joe Sherman (the guy famous for 600+ hp 350ish cid street engines) long before he had a similar test engine in Car Craft Mag in May of 99. Although after the test I talked to him about a few things and of course, that article wanst really telling the WHOLE truth (color me surprised). The range of effective RPM was way off what they were publishing......the article was looking at the mid 7k band for a peak, when it was really in the 8k band......

The runner dividers are probably the best improvement to the base design of the original 2975. But the addition of more improvments has made this manifold the choise for 23* and 18* cylinder heads hands down. There are improvments to the out of the box 2925 that you can do yourselves. The biggest improvements are to blend the base pad about 1-1.5" into the plenum, blending (smoothing) the long radius turn in the runners and the addition of a 'Turtle' on the plenum floor.

I will however say not to purchase the CNC'd version (2825) as it isnt worth the time to even say the part number. Not worth the money.....

I have heard of stories of the differences on actual dyno tests between the SD and the SV. If I were to put and average HP and Torque difference between the two, the SV would pick up about 40 HP and 30 or so ftlbs of torque. Joe has stated to me that depending on all parts invloved that he has seen roughly a 30 HP increase over anything else.....ya know me and RPM/HP, and the slight mention of 30 HP sold me. Edelbrock even states in the catalog that on a given 377cid that the SV over a SD made another 43hp and 32ftlbs.......so what I have heard supports the advertisement.

An actual back to back test would be invaluable to those with cid's like that of which you are running.

Interesting thread and good info. Anyone know the exact differences between the Vic Jr and the SV? I was under the impression the major diff was the plenum height being roughly 1" taller on the SV.

The Vic Jr is a little softer below 3k when compared a to RPM Air Gap on my 383. Just like the SV, it makes up for it above 4k. I went 1/10th faster with the Vic Jr, but that was when I was running a milder cam. I would probably drop off more than a tenth going back to a dual plane now since I run a bigger cam.

BTW I found that the Vic Jr really likes an OPEN 1" spacer. Maybe even a 2" open spacer if you have the room.

the cam I am running is 5.25 straight profile 304 adv. dur and 258 at .050 solid flat tappet. Real strong in upper rpms thats why I figured SV would benefit me.

Well,, according to
the carcraft tests (they started with a vic Jr and went to a SV),

http://carcraft.com/techarticles/68999/
http://carcraft.com/techarticles/69199/

The SV has like a 15percent larger port area than the VicJr. But, i think those dimensions are only at the actual port outlet. Im not sure they are internally 15percent larger


http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive/man_sbchev_victor.html#ref

i will be dynoing a aftermarket CNCed Vic JR in the next couple of weeks. I doubt I will have any intake other than a performer rpm to compare it with.

As 89rs400 stated, the overall total manifold volume is larger than the current Victor Jr manifolds. The cross sectional runner width is greater as is the plenum volume.

The reason the height is taller is that the modifications to flatten out the runner floors turned the runners which stood the runners up and increased the height. It has also been effected by the increase of the runners volume, it has now become taller than the typical 2975.

The old 2975 LOVED a 1 or 2" spacer. The new 2925 has shown gains from a 1" four hole/transisioned to an open, better than that of previous designs. A 2" is only needed if you really required a plenum volume increase.....but it is not likely with the new design. It just works that damn good.

good stuff chicane, whats cool about this thread, besides just a lot of good info, is it supports 100% the stuff i've been told about the SV, by reliable sources. i had basically already decided on the 2925, this just makes me feel better about it. the team g doubtfully will make more power on my motor, but heck for the price of gaskets and an hour, the data is really nice to have. i better get my fuel system dialed in so i can get the SD to the track again and give it a chance at some real numbers. i noticed when looking at the 2925 the fact its plenum and runners are more raised and slightly different design to boot, it's cool to hear the actual changes. and a side note about spacers, my machinist buddy has seen the same as you about the 4 hole transition to open spacers (he sells wilson's version), and on an average they net about 20 horse on the dyno vs. nothing at all. i saw a guy with raised runner afr's on a 377, with i believe a dart single plane, dyno 582 horse with the manofold alone, then they threw on a wilson 2" transition spacer, made a pull and made a tick over 600 horse, and increased his average as well, not just on top. very impressive indeed. then as an odd turn about, my buddy's 406 with the team g made more horsepower with an open 2" spacer, and with manifold alone, than the same wilson 2" transition spacer. crazy, huh? it was only about a 10 horse swing overall at peak, but hey every little bit. i guess that just goes to show, nothing is a "sure" thing. my buddy did however say it's the first time they've seen it go that way though. he's seen marginal increase, but never a loss like that. i'm thinking it's some sort of team g design anomaly, when paired with that motor. well anyway, thats my .02, and again, excellent thread graemlins/thumbsup.gif

just remembered a hotrod test. Sept 2002.
560hp 383 (with a comp 305solid cam- which im not so sure about).


Our best power came with the SV and a 2" open spacer. Removing the spacer gave up 10-15hp, delivering about the same overall performance as the victor with a spacer. The vic jr with no spacer gave up 18 peak HP compared to the SV with a spacer.

No suprise there, Edelbrock recommends running the Vic with open spacer. I wonder how that Hotrod test would have come out comparing the SV with spacer to the Vic Jr with spacer.

it did compare the two, sept 2002 same article, victor jr with spacer made the same overall power as SV without it. 18 hp difference vic jr. without compared to sv with. SO it would seem the vic jr with a 2" spacer performs very close to SV without. HMMMM dyno data, the were messing with valve lashes etc, and using 2" spacer on the SV which probably doesn't fit under even a cowl hood. My concern is the gain over the SD being substantial as stated or at least close enough to make it worth the swap.

My current best is 7.15 @ 96 with 1.54 60’ running a Victor Jr. and 1” 4-hole spacer on top of a 1” open spacer. I’ve swapped out the Vic Jr. to a port matched RPM Airgap with a 1” open spacer. Test results are forthcoming this fall when the weather cools down a bit.

I expect to see .02-.03 in 60’. What that equates to in 1/8 mile ET reduction is only speculative. Most agree I’ll lose 1 MPH but pick up ET. This in a 3300 lb ride with a 10:1 383 shifted at 6200-6300.

I’d forget about what you read in the rags. Torque wins drag races, HP wins bragging matches.

Originally posted by 40Coupe:
Torque wins drag races, HP wins bragging matches. Unless you are traction limited tongue.gif

*Laughs out Loud*

Got beat to the punch ........

Originally posted by chicane67:
*Laughs out Loud*

Got beat to the punch ........ That's the big IF......traction. If you ain't got any you won't ET.

Hey dont be point'n your proverbial, commentational finger at me. I am not the one who stated anything in the first place...... tongue.gif

Man you drag race only guys sure have a one track mind.....I guess I know what to get you for Christmas. :D

Originally posted by chicane67:
Hey dont be point'n your proverbial, commentational finger at me. I am not the one who stated anything in the first place...... tongue.gif

Man you drag race only guys sure have a one track mind.....I guess I know what to get you for Christmas. :D Post up your e-mail and I'll forward a picture of my "drag car". ;)

Would this be it?

http://www.ponyexpress.net/~mgalbr/images/highres/burnout2high-res.jpg

Originally posted by chicane67:
Hey dont be point'n your proverbial, commentational finger at me. I am not the one who stated anything in the first place...... tongue.gif

Man you drag race only guys sure have a one track mind.....I guess I know what to get you for Christmas. :D Here it goes again... :rolleyes:
I thought this guy was starting to mellow out..
So I thought graemlins/clonk.gif
If you are more tuned to road races, maybe you can find a site that you`re more comfortable with.
Seems you have a `tude toward us "drag race only guys" with comments like that

[ 07-15-2003, 07:59 PM: Message edited by: BigRed-L72 ]

Originally posted by sik68:
Unless you are traction limited tongue.gif Then you loose all around.

40- Thats it! I love that picture...... :D

Bigred- What the hell is your story? It was meant in total humor to begin with. You always have comments to make that dont support anything except for something you wont let go of from a LONG time ago. So, before you start to pop off about whatever, why dont you scratch the crust on your noodle and remember something back from a long time ago.....as I have stated many times before, I started out 18+ years ago on the 1320. So your comments about myself and a road car are futile. I dont have a "tude" towards diggers or cone killers. And secondly, who stated that this was primarily a 'drag racer' site anyway, I sure dont 'see' anything that staes that !?!! AND who stated that I was a "road racer only guy", huh.....? Its funny that you see one of your homies involved in some loose humor (that obviously you dont get) and you just gotta jump in and hype it up.

So here YOU go again......

Read this again and remind me of exactly what I said.......

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by chicane67:
Hey dont be point'n your proverbial, commentational finger at me. I am not the one who stated anything in the first place......
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

And its kinda funny that you would even state this:
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If you are more tuned to road races, maybe you can find a site that you`re more comfortable with.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Why dont you go find an alternate site OR become less closed minded? (now read into the humor here, you dont want to get yourself into a little tiff). ;) Your not too familiar with sarcasm are you? Geeze cracker.....chill out.....Prozac maybe?...... :D

[ 07-15-2003, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: chicane67 ]

Why is everything a pissing match on this site lately? I started this thread for info on the SV. Lighten up guys!

Well, this was a light thread. Sik68, 40coupe and myself were throwing around a little light humor and someone else stepped in and tried to point out that it was something different than, what it really was.

It was all good until someone that doesnt want to let go of something from the past, brings up their same issues.....that are purely based on misinterpritation and speculation and it once again turns out like this......with un-justified commentary from one that has not participated in the thread.

;) I think he has "Westcoast-Phobia" ;) cuz he's always got to read into things......when it comes from the humor of sarcasm. :D

I'm not complaining, I'm not baggin and I'm not tryin to get the last word in......I am just calling it as it is. I surely dont have problems here when everyone is on the same page. Meaning, being more open to just your own opinion and philosophy.........(this is what I meant from my closed minded comment).

Are we green?

Thanks for the compliment......spanked many a Camaro with that package. :D

Geez, a spat without the usual instigator involved . . . ;)

Originally posted by chicane67:

Bigred You always have comments to make that dont support anything except for something you wont let go of from a LONG time ago.

quote: Well then, I`d have to say; Sorry...Didn`t realize there was some behind the scene, good humored bantering going on graemlins/clonk.gif . Accept my humble appology.

But I don`t get the comment above :confused: :(

I think that you and I have a little history from a thread that involved you, 40 and I think CNC was involded as well. And what it all came down to was that I was questioning Brian on something and we all got jumbled up into a little 'spat' (thanks Eric) along the same lines concerning drag racers/road racers, eastcoast/westcoast alike.

It just came back from your comment about, "Here it goes again, I though this guys way starting to mellow out"......and that brought me back to the beform mentioned post from way back when.

No biggie, sorry if I rubbed ya the wrong way. I dont have any intentions of baggin anybody and I do realize that its really hard to pick up on 'tone' and elements of various humor from a computer screen (I fall victim to that myself). I just thought people round here were used or getting used to my sense of sarcastic, light hearted humor. Lesson learned on my part. smile.gif

graemlins/beers.gif

"thanks eric" WHAT IS THAT SUPPOSED TO MEAN!!!! for cryin' OUT LOUD!!!! just THANKS ERIC ??? how DARE YOU say that to me !!!!! You NEVER thanked me for anything before noooooow, and out of the blue . . . "thank you"? I get your tone. I bet you have a thing against red Camaros DON'T YOU!!! . . . or is it because I'm from Michigan !!!!! yeah, Michigan . . .

;) I'm just kiddin' in case there was any doubt. LOL I need to get back to the track --- I think I'm getting a little stir crazy . . .

ps. what was this thread about again?

I'm going to tell you guys the same thing I tell the wife and kids when they are arguing. I am going to lock all of you in a room and give each of you a plastic butter knife...last person standing wins. tongue.gif

Can't you just feel the love in here :D

graemlins/beers.gif

graemlins/beers.gif

Originally posted by travis:
I'm going to tell you guys the same thing I tell the wife and kids when they are arguing. I am going to lock all of you in a room and give each of you a plastic butter knife...last person standing wins. tongue.gif

graemlins/beers.gif Aim for the eyes!!!!!!!! ;)