New Bests With 1980 Camaro With 400

Here are the run numbers along with all ET data

New bests for the Camaro but much more ET available, we just have to find it, STILL HAVE THE TIMING @ 34 with Sunoco Blue fuel ! Honestly we dont need any more torque right this minute

Pass 1 off the trailer
60' 1.41
330' 4.178
660' 6.504 @105.68mph
1000' 8.521
1/4 10.247 @130.97mph
Notes: tire spin after leave 20' out

PAss 2, loosen the shocks and drop air pressure from pass 1 settings
60' 1.445 (shook the tires and got sideways with nose of car aiming 11-11:30)
330' 4.23
660' 6.572 @105.14mph
1000' 8.593
1/4 10.322 @130.58mph
Notes: shook a little on the gear change, believe it it hit the converter on shift and shook - shift @6,000rpm so we are raising the shift rpm to 6400rpm. We also were bouncing off the rev limiter @ 7200rpm on this pass

Pass 3, back to pass one settings with 1 extra click to stiff
60' 1.418
330' 4.19
660' 6.51 @106.06mph
1000' 8.515
1/4 10.228 @132.06mph
Notes: still have tire spin off the line but getting better, shifted @ 6400rpm and ran 6800rpm past the lights

Pass 4, no changes
60' 1.42
330' 4.174
660' 6.483 @106.56mph
1000' 8.482
1/4 10.190 @132.28mph
Notes: still had tire spin, for about 6-8'

Think it will do better on a bracket race day

here is the old combo and the new combo below, We rushed on it working until about 3am last night and tonight, It will go in the car tomorrow

The old engine combo was......
- GM 4 bolt block bored, no other work, piston .026" in the hole
- GM 350 rods
- KB OE type pistons for 5.7 rods (claimer i think) , 10.96:1 compression with our quench
- 5/64" 5/64" 3/16" rings
- GM 291 heads, No porting except bowls
- Crane solid cam 256/264 @.050" .545"/.563" 105 lobe seperation
- vic jr
- 850 BG modified by us

The new engine is (which will come out when the EQ head/Dr. J's 406 goes in and this engine below will be the back up engine).............
- GM 4 Bolt main block, line honed, decked, bored/honed, filled with Hardblok (Thanks to BillK)
- GM crank
- Scat 6" Pro Comp Rods (had to notch some cylinders and relieve the oil pan rail some)
- Keith Black Premium Forged 2618 pistons (nice and moderate to light weight)
- 1/16" 1/16" 3/16" rings (LOW TENSION)
- King Engine Bearings
- Rotating unit balanced by Billk
- Same 291 heads EXCEPT due to unexpected problems we had an extra wait on the block work, so we did some porting to the exhaust (very mild, BillK saw it), gasket matched (nothing down in runners) and more bowl work and valve job
- Same 1.46" Crane Cams Valve Springs (which i think are/were PAC) still pressure test with in single digits of what they are suppose to be so we used them again (they must have 300-400 runs)
- Crane Saturday Night Special 292/300 @.020" 256/264 @.050" .545"/.563" 105 lobe seperation angle, 102 intake centerline
- Victor Jr. Intake (we may run a few runs after break in time and try our professional products Victor Jr. "look alike" that did ET quicker than the Victor Jr. on the Chevelle
- 850 BG Modified by us (same as a 1000hp Holley)

As to the compression on the new engine, With our heads, head gaskets, deck and pistons we are 12.38:1 EXCEPT i have to figure out how much compression loss we have by top ring location (the higher the top ring the less compression loss), should be about 12.30:1 with our top ring location

Here are some specs, some i dont have with me on the block
- Main bearing clearance .003" / .003" / .003" / .003" / 003"
- Rod bearing clearance (If we had more "time" we would have ordered a set of .001" extra oil clearance and mixed matched bearings to get an extra .0005" but we "can live" with it here
Rod #1 .0021"
Rod #2 .0022"
Rod #3 .0022"
Rod #4 .0021"
Rod #5 .0021"
Rod #6 .0022"
Rod #7 .0020"
Rod #8 .0020"
- Rod side clearance (If we had more "time" again we would have set all the side clearances closer to .030")
Rods # 1&2 .026"
Rods # 3&4 .026"
Rods # 5&6 .020"
Rods # 7&8 .020"
- Crankshaft end play .0065"
- Piston to wall clearance .0075" (will have to look as i forgot that info sheet, its in the shop not my pocket like this one, off memory Bill & I talked about .0075" and thats what i recall them at but will have to look)
- Piston to valve clearance, we checked it with checking springs but had so much visable clearnace we didnt bother to measure
- Rod bolt torque to get proper stretch (.0046") after each rod torqued to suggest torque 6 times, most all of them had to go 65 foot pounds, one was 66 and one was 67

Now i have used many Crane cams timing sets which i cant anymore as they are not opened on that end (they actually did make billet gears there, very accurate gears) , when you degree a cam you have many factors against you such as....
- user error
- key way error in crank
- key way error in crank gear
- error in cam gear
- error in camshaft & more

The cam is a 105 lobe center with 3 degrees advanced ground in which should put the ICL @ 102 and this is where i wanted it, I have been saving a Crane Billet 9 Key Way timing set as we cant get the accurate ones from Crane anymore until they re-open, We degreed the cam and the ICL is clearly @ 102 degrees making it perfect

We did have to notch the cylinders and the oil pan rails for rod & rod bolt clearance, we have clearance .060" or larger now

Here is a link to the pistons we are running, EXCELLENT pistons for the money. They are nice and light
http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?a...tails&P_id=328 (http://kb-silvolite.com/forged.php?a...tails&P_id=328)

We would like to thank Billk for all the work in the block and balancing, I know Bill was happy to see this block leave his shop as the block was in love with Bill or had a curse on him because everything that "could" go wrong did go wrong, Thanks BillK

The cars weight is 2800 pounds, heavier now by probally about 50 pounds due to extra bracing and safety items. With the original combo listed at the top best ET was 10.41 and 128.42mph with many many low 10.40 runs, Cars combo is as follows,,,,,,,
- Powerglide with ATI 5200rpm Treemaster converter 8" with Transbrake
- 12 bolt rear, spool & 4.88's with 32x14 Mickey Thompson ET Drag Slicks
- 2800 old weight plus about 50 pounds (may be a few less than 50 pounds, Will know race day)

Here is a photo of the shortblock
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/331Trmnatr/IMG_0026.jpg

Here is a photo of the car in the pits
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/331Trmnatr/DVC00132.jpg

Here is a photo of the time slip off the trailer (first pass)
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/331Trmnatr/DVC00133.jpg

Looking great Butch :beers:

Looking great Butch :beers:

Thanks Doug, Looking for a 10.0 :yes:

Then the big engine (406) is going in which should run 9.50's to 9.60's

We found out from a friend who was at the track very early, They did not prep the track and put NO VHT down

So we are gonna keep the suspension as is and go back next week when the normal crew is working as they prep pretty good last year and this year

That's one ugly thumb. LOL.

You've got the MPH to sneek into the 9's.

Congrats. Very nice times with more left in it.

You've got that dude flying. I really like how you prove you can go fast without the latest *trick of the week* parts.

Light weight, some gear and some good 'ole decent HP still works!!


Keep it up..the new setup should be a real handful!

JIM

You've got that dude flying. I really like how you prove you can go fast without the latest *trick of the week* parts.

Light weight, some gear and some good 'ole decent HP still works!!


Keep it up..the new setup should be a real handful!

JIM

We installed the Santhuff front & rear springs to take the bounce away but forgot a few things in a hurry going out for the first race of the year (2010) for us

We did an alignment after the springs and did not have fuel with us so put that performance legal fuel in it that Sunoco up the street sells and did the alignment,,,

Bad news is we went to the track and forgot about the fuel :sad: When the engine was warm it ran like total $hit. We let the engine cool down and left the waterpump on the whole time and it set a few new bests only when the engine was ice cold. That fuel has a descent octane rating but no where near the BTU of the VP C12 Fuel :sad:

So all in all, The times we just ran are not too bad for pump gas BS. Here are all of our notes and when we figured it out

Pass 1 Engine Cold, first pass with Santhuff's (New best 60')
60' 1.407
330' 4.149
660' 6.462 @105.94mph
1000' 8.480
1/4 10.202 @130.28mph
Notes: engine cold, descent short times but lost power and DA here is 800' lower than last outing (10.19 pass)

Pass 2 Engine At Operating Temp
60' 1.417
330' 4.169
660' 6.493 @105.41mph
1000' 8.521
1/4 10.254 @129.43
Notes: engine at operating temp, seems as if we are leaning out as it gets hot

Pass 3 Engine At Operating Temp, Almost a hot lap
60' 1.42
330' 4.192
660' 6.531 @104.71
1000' 8.568
1/4 10.305 @129.18
Notes: engine at operating temp, pulled plug and are leaning out. checked fuel pressure and thats when we found the problem, We have street legal fuel in the cell :( must keep the car cool in additional rounds, back timing from 34 to 32

Pass 4 Engine ice cold
60' 1.403
330' 4.153
660' 6.464 @106.11
1000' 8.472
1/4 10.183 @131.08
Notes: we were able to get the engine ice cold, still lacking horsepower being the DA is 800' better than last outing.

Pass 5 Engine between cool and operating temp
60' 1.414
330' 4.166
660' 6.484 @105.86
1000' 8.50
1/4 10.219 @130.53
Notes: only had 20 minutes to cool engine down, didnt get engine cool enough so knew the time was gonna drop.

Friday we will be going to test & tune, this was a bracket race but we used it for test & tune. All the street legal fuel is drained, picked up what we usually run from the barrel (VP C12 or Sunoco Blue) and the cell is now full with the usual fuel and bumped the timing back up to 34

Next week we will be testing the engine with the following things,
- proper ignition timing
- the correct fuel in the car, no street legal bs
- we will also try the other carburetor off the 331cid small block as it set ET bests on the Camaro many times but is not consistent like the 1000 Annular

Shooting for 9.90/10.0's , We really thought we would hit them this weekend but we were a solid 2mph off in better DA. Sixty foots were there, but thats about it

Next week we will have the video camera's. Should have one on the roll bar next week and one outside the car also. Will also have one on the big end too

I'm amazed that basically Stock 291 Heads will Flow 400 Cubes to 7G's.
I always considered they may Cork after 350 Cubes. That 105 LSA Cam sure is working for you.

I've a set of Jenkin Spec'd 291's which I plan on putting on my 11.25:1 327 using a Sigerson Cam with similar Spec's ;o)

Well... atleast you got out :yes:

Still nothing to sneeze at :noway:

I'm amazed that basically Stock 291 Heads will Flow 400 Cubes to 7G's.
I always considered they may Cork after 350 Cubes. That 105 LSA Cam sure is working for you.

I've a set of Jenkin Spec'd 291's which I plan on putting on my 11.25:1 327 using a Sigerson Cam with similar Spec's ;o)

The heads are stock 1969 intake runners, 2.02"/1.6" valve installed so we bowl ported them, then we ported the exhaust runners just enough to smooth them and polished them up after that. They are gasket matched (intake runners about 1/8")

Here are the flow numbers
2.02/1.6 valves, flowed on 400 bore adaptor, no pipe on exhaust, bowl ported, no intake runner work, no exhaust runner work, no chamber work, mild gasket match, no pipe on exhaust, flowed at 28"
.100" 60 - 53
.200" 125 - 101
.300" 181 - 138
.400" 216 - 163
.500" 227 - 183
.600" 227 - 190

Went flat above .500" but didnt drop off

Not too bad for some junk heads

Well... atleast you got out :yes:

Still nothing to sneeze at :noway:

It ran good, just not what it should have ran

These are my 2.02/1.6 291's Ported to Jenkin Spec's

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3333/3639537426_38b7d8b068.jpg
Got it pretty thin on the Push Rod Side.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3407/3638727769_c0a7fedc8a.jpg
Exhaust has Venturi Shaped Valve Angles.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3406/3638727897_57368a58a6.jpg
That's the Book to get when working with 291 and 292 Castings.

No Idea of the CFM as they never been Flow Tested but should improve Flow above that .500" barrier and spin my 327 easily to 8G's. The 292 Castings are considered Best for Larger displacement SBC's such as yours.

Want to trade :D:D:D:D

We installed the Santhuff front & rear springs to take the bounce away but forgot a few things in a hurry going out for the first race of the year (2010) for us

We did an alignment after the springs and did not have fuel with us so put that performance legal fuel in it that Sunoco up the street sells and did the alignment,,,

Bad news is we went to the track and forgot about the fuel :sad: When the engine was warm it ran like total . We let the engine cool down and left the waterpump on the whole time and it set a few new bests only when the engine was ice cold. That fuel has a descent octane rating but no where near the BTU of the VP C12 Fuel :sad:

So all in all, The times we just ran are not too bad for pump gas BS. Here are all of our notes and when we figured it out

Pass 1 Engine Cold, first pass with Santhuff's (New best 60')
60' 1.407
330' 4.149
660' 6.462 @105.94mph
1000' 8.480
1/4 10.202 @130.28mph
Notes: engine cold, descent short times but lost power and DA here is 800' lower than last outing (10.19 pass)

Pass 2 Engine At Operating Temp
60' 1.417
330' 4.169
660' 6.493 @105.41mph
1000' 8.521
1/4 10.254 @129.43
Notes: engine at operating temp, seems as if we are leaning out as it gets hot

Pass 3 Engine At Operating Temp, Almost a hot lap
60' 1.42
330' 4.192
660' 6.531 @104.71
1000' 8.568
1/4 10.305 @129.18
Notes: engine at operating temp, pulled plug and are leaning out. checked fuel pressure and thats when we found the problem, We have street legal fuel in the cell :( must keep the car cool in additional rounds, back timing from 34 to 32

Pass 4 Engine ice cold
60' 1.403
330' 4.153
660' 6.464 @106.11
1000' 8.472
1/4 10.183 @131.08
Notes: we were able to get the engine ice cold, still lacking horsepower being the DA is 800' better than last outing.

Pass 5 Engine between cool and operating temp
60' 1.414
330' 4.166
660' 6.484 @105.86
1000' 8.50
1/4 10.219 @130.53
Notes: only had 20 minutes to cool engine down, didnt get engine cool enough so knew the time was gonna drop.

Friday we will be going to test & tune, this was a bracket race but we used it for test & tune. All the street legal fuel is drained, picked up what we usually run from the barrel (VP C12 or Sunoco Blue) and the cell is now full with the usual fuel and bumped the timing back up to 34

Next week we will be testing the engine with the following things,
- proper ignition timing
- the correct fuel in the car, no street legal bs
- we will also try the other carburetor off the 331cid small block as it set ET bests on the Camaro many times but is not consistent like the 1000 Annular

Shooting for 9.90/10.0's , We really thought we would hit them this weekend but we were a solid 2mph off in better DA. Sixty foots were there, but thats about it

Next week we will have the video camera's. Should have one on the roll bar next week and one outside the car also. Will also have one on the big end too

Also on the 10.183 pass, It was hitting on the 7,400rpm rev limiter chip (MSD) just as we passed the stripe, it dropped cylinders twice, right at the second drop of cylinders on the rev limiter we were off the throttle

I guess we will put the 7,600rpm chip in it and see how hard we can push some stock junk :cool:

Those are pretty respectable numbers. Congrats. Man, that thing is light.

With the Vic Jr intake, try a 1" or 1.5" spacer, if you haven't already. On that intake with that combo it should yield 10-15 hp.

Jim

Those are pretty respectable numbers. Congrats. Man, that thing is light.

With the Vic Jr intake, try a 1" or 1.5" spacer, if you haven't already. On that intake with that combo it should yield 10-15 hp.

Jim

Jim, Thanks! At one point we did back when it had 4.56 gears and was 10.96:1 compression (10.615 to 10.63) and when we added 4.88's the ET's were 10.41 to 10.47

Now it is the combo listed, basic same combo but higher compression. Only have 9 runs on it, so we will be testing some other things out such as spacers etc

These heads always wanted around 40 degrees ignition timing, We are sneeking up on the tune-up running 34 locked out, we were 32 yesterday when we knew what the problem was

Looks like we will have some more data Friday with temps ~78-80

We got some video this week

One thing that was interesting is being it was a Test & Tune without a bracket`race there were a ton of street cars so we watched cars we know that we help tune and ones we build power for

The awesome part was we had to make changes EVERY SINGLE PASS and we ran so consistent it is not even funny

Pass 1, warm up run, dailed in based off other cars we know
60' 1.425
330' 4.176
660' 6.502 @105.69mph
1000' 8.515
1/4 10.234 @131.78mph

Pass 2
60' 1.423
330' 4.172
660' 6.497 @105.74mph
1000' 8.509
1/4 10.226 @132.08mph

Pass 3
60' 1.422
330' 4.169
660' 6.495 @105.74mph
1000' 8.505
1/4 10.221 @132.17

Pass 4, I didnt even write down. I threw the time ticket in the trailer as I was ticked off a little lol The STREET car in front of us dropped water off the tread/wheel wells, I dont think they got it all up as we spun, we didnt have time to clear the throttle after pre-stage as the street car beside us double bulbed us, just a very bad pass with a 1.45x 60' and a 10.29x run

Here is the video from Pass 1, will post some more shortly
http://i510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/331Trmnatr/th_MVI_3701.jpg (http://s510.photobucket.com/albums/s347/331Trmnatr/?action=view&current=MVI_3701.flv)