Hello, my name is Cheri. I have owned a 69 Camaro RS/SS for 17+years. I think I have a treasure. I am selling, need garage space. The buyer has asked for trim tag number at fire wall drivers side, POP info. (it is still attached to the new car warranty brochure), we have called the original buyer from the factory (still alive) they verified car details for curiousity purposes and the buyer still wants further authentication. There is no build sheet. What out there is available to verify further?
Nice to meet all of you......

HI that sould be all the proof any one would need post a picture and how much thier sould be lots of buyers

posting pictures?????do I have to pay to do that?

Welcome Cheri, only Camaros built in California have build sheets and only rarely. A pic of the POP and the trim tag, the hidden vin on the cowl and drivetrain numbers are all that matters when documenting a early Camaro. Asking for verification on these numbers when buying a high dollar car (hope you priced your camaro correctly!) are resonable requests from the buyer. There are free photo sites you can sign up for. Luck on your sale!

the hidden cowl vin and the drivetrain numbers?????can you guide me within the forum if these are listed for help in locating them.

Cheri,
Here is some good reading regarding you're questions. From Camaro Research Group.

Ken

http://www.camaros.org/numbers.shtml
http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml

Hello, my name is Cheri. I have owned a 69 Camaro RS/SS for 17+years. I think I have a treasure. I am selling, need garage space. The buyer has asked for trim tag number at fire wall drivers side, POP info. (it is still attached to the new car warranty brochure), we have called the original buyer from the factory (still alive) they verified car details for curiousity purposes and the buyer still wants further authentication. There is no build sheet. What out there is available to verify further?
Nice to meet all of you......

So to be clear, did you already send the potential buyer the trim tag, and POP info? Did he inspect the car?

Yes, he has seen the trim tag photo, and the POP plate pic but it didn't photgraph well. And, no he hasn't inspected physically, he lives in Canada and has only seen pics and a pretty detailed description of the rust spots. Minimal, but I am not a body man...... Peoples eyes see differently.

photo posting options are listed in the link in my signature.

HI that sould be all the proof any one would need post a picture and how much thier sould be lots of buyers

We have a forum for classifieds and an actual classified section so we don't have buying and selling going on here in th forums...

We have a forum for classifieds and an actual classified section so we don't have buying and selling going on here in th forums...
Hi Dennis,
My post got off subject. I am sorry. I started out wanting one thing and got an answer and it blossomed into this. No more on this subject.

Hi Dennis,
My post got off subject. I am sorry. I started out wanting one thing and got an answer and it blossomed into this. No more on this subject.

The thread is fine Cheri, you got a reply from a member wanting to turn this into an ad so I quoted and replied to him. Feel free to list it if you loose the buyer, our classified section is a great resource...

Hey welcome to TC, stick around and give us a chance to talk you out of selling the car and become a Camaro nut like the rest of us! :beers:

Thanks guys! I am already a Camaro nut. I bought the car years ago, just because. I never checked its authenticity, it wasn't important. Now selling it, these things have become important. I have to make room for a new car in the garage. And, I haven't been driving or doing anything other than dusting the Camaro for over 4 years. I set up an appointment for Thursday to have an authenicated appraisal completed by a vintage company. They will do a search for all the numbers on the engine, drivetrain, etc., decode and rate the condition, etc...Then provide me with a hard copy including pictures for reference. The buyer is skeptical as expected and I am just wanting to do the right thing. I sent a picture of the trim tag to a person on here that was going to do some checking and I sent the link to the ebay add to another person on here. I will take you up on that if the current buyer doesn't follow through. Ebay SOLD AD:260482062031
Have a good night!
Cheri

eBain link - http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260482062031&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fmotors.shop.ebay.com%3A80%2F__%3F_ from%3DR40%26_trksid%3Dp3841.m39.l1313%26_nkw%3D26 0482062031%26_sacat%3D%26_fvi%3D1&_rdc=1

Looks like a very nice car :thumbsup:
If it's okay with you, I will post the VIN in the eBay add for future searches - or you can ...

Nice Cheri! I have never seen an underdash radio in that location! That must have made it hard to use the accel pedal. Car has a good set of options and has most of the right peices. A little TLC will work wonders. :)

Cheri-

You have been more than fair to this seller with very low feedback. Your car should sell for at least the high bid amount.

I would request that this buyer agree to pay for the appraisal, or I would re-list. You had many strong bidders, and if you add the completed appraisal it should bring a higher price and fewer problems with the new buyer.

This is a nice original car... I like it very much, but I already have a Cortez Silver '69.

Nice Cheri! I have never seen an underdash radio in that location! That must have made it hard to use the accel pedal. Car has a good set of options and has most of the right peices. A little TLC will work wonders. :)
Not for me, 5'3" -- but anyone bigger, I bet it would. I just didn't wan't the dash or anything changed with the car for the stereo, so that is what I ended up with. Bad place, but the car wasn't altered....

I have spent alot of time at this website. It is very easy to understand. Is it a bad thing that the vintage company doing the appraisal has never heard of CRG? I would think everyone that is accessing numbers would use that site, the man I spoke with says he has never heard of that site and uses other decoding methods.

I have spent alot of time at this website. It is very easy to understand. Is it a bad thing that the vintage company doing the appraisal has never heard of CRG? I would think everyone that is accessing numbers would use that site, the man I spoke with says he has never heard of that site and uses other decoding methods.

There are very few appraisal companys that are truly experts on these old cars or any old cars for that matter. I'm not picking on the company you are using or any other but if you think about it, what would it take for a company to retain subject experts for every year and every make and model car someone might bring them? Not going to happen! What kind of library would it take to have reference material on every car that could be brought to them for appraisal?

The typical appraiser sets a value by looking at condition and appearence, 15" rally wheels look just like 14" rally wheels, disc brakes from a '69 camaro on a '67 would never be pointed out and if a car was made to look like an SS with proper badging and trim the average appraiser will tell you it's an SS because he doesn't know to look for all the signs that could give it away as something else.

If you are lucky the appraiser has a book or two and can check VIN, cowl tags and maybe the engine stampings but I bet he doesn't get under the car and check the trans or rearend...

I'm not bashing appraisers, they provide a service and a good one can set a value based on condition and appearence using nada or other pricing guides and can be a big help if you need to set a value on a car. An appraiser can't certify a car to be real as opposed to a tribute unless they specialize in 1 or 2 specific cars they just don't have the background to provide what you are looking for. It doesn't surprise me that they never heard of CRG.

Looks like a good car. Is the high bidder the guy wanting more info ? I wouldn't do another thing for him until he pays you a non refundable deposit. If he was still window shopping he shouldn't have bid. List it on this site in the classifieds with good pics and info for the same price and it should sell.

Looks like a good car. Is the high bidder the guy wanting more info ? I wouldn't do another thing for him until he pays you a non refundable deposit. If he was still window shopping he shouldn't have bid. List it on this site in the classifieds with good pics and info for the same price and it should sell.
Yes it is. He has paid the deposit, BUT, he hasn't followed through with anything else. He was suppose to show on Sat. from Canada to look at the car and make his mind up to go on Monday and do the banking. I want cash. He is making such a big deal with the cash factor that I am not budging. He wants to do some form of paper transaction. (money order, certifiied check) My bank says those paper documents are treated like checks and will go through a few days before clearing. He isn't driving away with my car and clear title and me without CASH. I did not tell him his deposit is non refundable. But, I have to wait until tomorrow to do this whole process with ebay. They make you wait before you can relist after a bad sale. He complained about the fee he has to pay, paypal via ebay, and has made a comment that he isn't paying that. I am not very comfortable with this man and after speaking with him, I would just like to be over all the drama. He acts like he really wants the car but isn't OK with the lack of what he is referring to as authentification that the car is an RS/SS. That is how this whole thread started, I was wondering if there was anyway to verify that using the stuff I have.

There are very few appraisal companys that are truly experts on these old cars or any old cars for that matter. I'm not picking on the company you are using or any other but if you think about it, what would it take for a company to retain subject experts for every year and every make and model car someone might bring them? Not going to happen! What kind of library would it take to have reference material on every car that could be brought to them for appraisal?

The typical appraiser sets a value by looking at condition and appearence, 15" rally wheels look just like 14" rally wheels, disc brakes from a '69 camaro on a '67 would never be pointed out and if a car was made to look like an SS with proper badging and trim the average appraiser will tell you it's an SS because he doesn't know to look for all the signs that could give it away as something else.

If you are lucky the appraiser has a book or two and can check VIN, cowl tags and maybe the engine stampings but I bet he doesn't get under the car and check the trans or rearend...

I'm not bashing appraisers, they provide a service and a good one can set a value based on condition and appearence using nada or other pricing guides and can be a big help if you need to set a value on a car. An appraiser can't certify a car to be real as opposed to a tribute unless they specialize in 1 or 2 specific cars they just don't have the background to provide what you are looking for. It doesn't surprise me that they never heard of CRG.

Hi, and thanks for your reply. I get the car looked at on Thursday and the guy stated that they get under the car and check the transmission numbers. I'll have to post something to you after he visits and produces his packet to get some feedback.

And, I will list the car for sale on here, once I get the current transaction behind me.

Just FYI, another option to getting cash is a direct transfer from his bank account to yours. There is no security issue on your end if you give him your checking account number, because you are basicly handing it out every time your write a check.

Car looks like a RS/SS to me, Madatory Power Disk Brakes, 350, Turbo 350, I wondered if the car has 12-bolt or 10-bolt posi?

Give the guy some time and then you have options for 2nd chance offers for the others bidders....

Good luck and welcome to the Ebay game.

Jeff G.

Yes it is. He has paid the deposit, BUT, he hasn't followed through with anything else. He was suppose to show on Sat. from Canada to look at the car and make his mind up to go on Monday and do the banking. I want cash. He is making such a big deal with the cash factor that I am not budging. He wants to do some form of paper transaction. (money order, certifiied check) My bank says those paper documents are treated like checks and will go through a few days before clearing. He isn't driving away with my car and clear title and me without CASH. I did not tell him his deposit is non refundable. But, I have to wait until tomorrow to do this whole process with ebay. They make you wait before you can relist after a bad sale. He complained about the fee he has to pay, paypal via ebay, and has made a comment that he isn't paying that. I am not very comfortable with this man and after speaking with him, I would just like to be over all the drama. He acts like he really wants the car but isn't OK with the lack of what he is referring to as authentification that the car is an RS/SS. That is how this whole thread started, I was wondering if there was anyway to verify that using the stuff I have.

The buyer is supposed to do his own authentification before bidding.
If you had provided more documentation in the auction that this is a true RS/SS with matching numbers, POP, and tags, you might have gotten even higher bids.
Since he has paid the $2k deposit, it's obvious he wants the car (as long as it's real). You mention he is comming from Canada and is reluctant to pay in cash, I can understand that because there is a $10,000 limit at the border. Anything over that has to be declared and adds complexity. And when you deposit more than $10,000 cash in your bank, you will have to fill out paperwork as well.
Is there no form of secure banking paper or transfers anymore?

Just FYI, another option to getting cash is a direct transfer from his bank account to yours. There is no security issue on your end if you give him your checking account number, because you are basicly handing it out every time your write a check.

X2. A wire transfer or "telegraphic transfer" from bank to bank is the way to go. There will be a fee of $25-50 probably and it will take a day or two for your bank to "notify" you that the money has landed in your account while they float it, but you should have no worries. I use this method at work with money from India, China, etc. :thumbsup:

Yes it is. He has paid the deposit, BUT, he hasn't followed through with anything else. He was suppose to show on Sat. from Canada to look at the car and make his mind up to go on Monday and do the banking. I want cash. He is making such a big deal with the cash factor that I am not budging. He wants to do some form of paper transaction. (money order, certifiied check) My bank says those paper documents are treated like checks and will go through a few days before clearing. He isn't driving away with my car and clear title and me without CASH. I did not tell him his deposit is non refundable. But, I have to wait until tomorrow to do this whole process with ebay. They make you wait before you can relist after a bad sale. He complained about the fee he has to pay, paypal via ebay, and has made a comment that he isn't paying that. I am not very comfortable with this man and after speaking with him, I would just like to be over all the drama. He acts like he really wants the car but isn't OK with the lack of what he is referring to as authentification that the car is an RS/SS. That is how this whole thread started, I was wondering if there was anyway to verify that using the stuff I have.

Hi Cherri....sweet ride....too bad you are parting w/ it....being Canadian and having done my share of Auto transactions...I am like you...or was anyway...cash is King! may I suggest you tell the buyer he gets a Bank draft (in US funds of course) and this is even better than cash (cash can be counterfiet and cheques can be forged as well) not a Bank draft....its as good or better than gold/cash!! Good luck and I understand his frustration trying to get all that US currency from a Canadian bank....hard to find one holding all that US $$ in cash.

X3 on the wire transfer, Very safe for both parties. As far as anyone telling you a cashiers check or anything else for that matter is as good as cash, Thats a crock of BS! Most all banks put a hold/5 to 7 days on anything else

X3 on the wire transfer, Very safe for both parties. As far as anyone telling you a cashiers check or anything else for that matter is as good as cash, Thats a crock of BS! Most all banks put a hold/5 to 7 days on anything else

Agreed but not a Bank Draft.....basically, you have given the bank the $$ and the bank draft is the bond the bank writes out to the seller...no holds but yes, the transfer is even better!!:hurray:

I agree. Tell him to do a Fed Fund Wire to your bank. Ask your banker for INCOMING FED FUND WIRE instructions and fax it over to him. You'll see the funds in your account the same day. I would even tell him that you'll cover the $20-25 fee for piece of mind.

If he wants the car let him assume all fees involved in the transaction. A buyer in the states can be found and possibly one that can make you feel more comfortable as you stated this man does not. Being uneasy is definately not a good way to go through a transaction of any kind. And I also agree he should assume responsiblity for inspection fees. If he does not possess the knowledge to prove authenticity, he should burp for it. Unless the dollar value of a car is at a figure that taking the hit is not a concern for the seller. At this point word of mouth may even sell this car. Many desireable cars do not even get advertised. Good Luck.

Hi Cherri....sweet ride....too bad you are parting w/ it....being Canadian and having done my share of Auto transactions...I am like you...or was anyway...cash is King! may I suggest you tell the buyer he gets a Bank draft (in US funds of course) and this is even better than cash (cash can be counterfiet and cheques can be forged as well) not a Bank draft....its as good or better than gold/cash!! Good luck and I understand his frustration trying to get all that US currency from a Canadian bank....hard to find one holding all that US $$ in cash.
I'm not sure bout a bank draft but I'm guessing if it paper in can be counterfeit. I used to think a certified check was better than cash until my neighbor took a fake one for a $20K sale. It took the bank four weeks to notify him of the forgery. His car was never recovered but the purchaser is doing three years.

Jeff

Having the POP and the fact that the original owner is still alive & remembers the car is what I would consider to be bulletproof documentation. Any other paper documents, build sheet, window sticker, etc. can be faked. There are even fake POPs & trim tags out there that look pretty convincing. Some of the POPs are made using original GM blanks & original GM stamping machines but as far as I know we don't have the technology yet to counterfiet people.. If this guy isn't willing to accept the word of the man who bought the car new then he is a flake and has other reasons for stalling. Plain & simple. Demand that he complete the deal or lose his deposit. Don't spend another dime of YOUR money trying to make him happy. ALL of this should have been done before he bid on your car. At this point it's a done deal, he owns the car, & the only thing left to do is pay you for it.

Just FYI, another option to getting cash is a direct transfer from his bank account to yours. There is no security issue on your end if you give him your checking account number, because you are basicly handing it out every time your write a check.

This is what I always did... I live in Canada and purchased my camaro in the states (along with a few other vehicles). If you want cash, have him transfer the money to your bank account directly and he can pick up the car once the money shows up in your account. This shifts the risk from you to him. Buying a car requires trust... but introducing ebay gives you both the opportunity for additional security. I say "transfer the money and come pick up your car when it clears". If you are uncomforatble giving your bank account numbers just arrange a time with his banker and you can call directly to the bank and give them your banking information. (This might be a bit overkill but I wouldn't blame you)

The long distance ebay process is often scary for both sides. If you listed in the ebay auction "cash only" then he should have read this before bidding and owes you cash. If you didn't list "cash only" then you will have to return his deposit.

Best of luck in the transaction.

Well I see you relisted it on Ebay (and TC).

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=260488026859#description

Unfortunately, you are never going to get all the money for this car without showing more pictures of the numbers. I can tell you are a little confused by some of your Q&A, maybe this will help.
Buyers want to see clear pictures of:
The protecto plate (this will confirm SS engine transmission and rear end)
The engine pad stamping under the alternator
The VIN tag on the dash under the window
The trim tag on the firewall (this will only show color, interior, and build date. Your car is to early for X codes)
Of course if you could get all the casting codes, assembly dates and VINs that would be even better, but more difficult for you.

http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.shtml

I wish you better luck with the buyer this time. It could be a great deal for someone who knows what to look for and can personally inspect the car.

BTW, the POP shows that it's an SS350 with a 3.07 posi.

You should not be paying for the appraisal. That car is clean and worth at least the Ebay selling price.

Ad showed car located in Indy. Isn't there somebody in Cheri's neighborhood that could help her out with numbers and such? Looks like a great find to me.

Jimmy V.

Cheri, the best way to sell this car would be to follow the advice here. Pictures tell a 1000 words and really will help you sell and definitely increase the number of bidders/bids.
Also, never tell anyone the ins and outs of your cars security system. Its called OPSEC. Keep the bad guys on their toes.

good luck.

Very nice car.

Nice Cheri! I have never seen an underdash radio in that location! That must have made it hard to use the accel pedal. Car has a good set of options and has most of the right peices. A little TLC will work wonders. :)

Hi, the underdash stereo was located there to try to keep the car as original as possible. ie: not tearing up dash...

Yes it is. He has paid the deposit, BUT, he hasn't followed through with anything else. He was suppose to show on Sat. from Canada to look at the car and make his mind up to go on Monday and do the banking. I want cash. He is making such a big deal with the cash factor that I am not budging. He wants to do some form of paper transaction. (money order, certifiied check) My bank says those paper documents are treated like checks and will go through a few days before clearing. He isn't driving away with my car and clear title and me without CASH. I did not tell him his deposit is non refundable. But, I have to wait until tomorrow to do this whole process with ebay. They make you wait before you can relist after a bad sale. He complained about the fee he has to pay, paypal via ebay, and has made a comment that he isn't paying that. I am not very comfortable with this man and after speaking with him, I would just like to be over all the drama. He acts like he really wants the car but isn't OK with the lack of what he is referring to as authentification that the car is an RS/SS. That is how this whole thread started, I was wondering if there was anyway to verify that using the stuff I have.

Ended that transaction (it was definitely a learning experience)and I have relisted it on here and ebay. I jumped the gun a little, by relisting so quickly, revisions make the ad on ebay look horrible. I had an appraisal and numbers checked on this yesterday and am very happy that I did this. The car is a nice one..It was like being on the Antique Roadshow. I did not buy my car years ago because all the numbers, this and that, I bought it because I liked it. Yeh! lucky for me, I ended up with a good one.. Remember I am selling.

BTW, the POP shows that it's an SS350 with a 3.07 posi.

Kurt, as was mentioned confusion has become my friend. Piling all this info. into a brain not trained for this has felt a little mushy when trying to decipher all that is being said.
I spent the money for the appraisal and the numbers were recorded and he is going to give me a 14 page report on his findings. But, are you saying that it is not a RS. I am so not with this...... From what he told me yesterday, I have an original numbers matching car. He mentioned the block casting number was once thought to be a rare one, but over time that tale has been disproved. Is there anything that can be traced from the car to prove the RS part since the original owners word may be lost over time?

Ad showed car located in Indy. Isn't there somebody in Cheri's neighborhood that could help her out with numbers and such? Looks like a great find to me.

Jimmy V.

Jimmy Thanks for this helpfulness, I paid yesterday to have it done. I am gonna advise more when I can speak from paperwork.

Kurt ... are you saying that it is not a RS. I am so not with this...... From what he told me yesterday, I have an original numbers matching car.
... Is there anything that can be traced from the car to prove the RS part since the original owners word may be lost over time?

Cheri, Kurt is not saying that at all :noway:
I will let him answer the question of 'how to prove' and give you the specific information you need.

Very nice car, I believe you have the information to support a decent resale price on it.
Best of luck on this auction :thumbsup:

John

I'm only referring to the drivetrain. The POP won't show that it's an RS.
See http://www.camaros.org/options.shtml#rs for those features.

The 388 block was considered rare. It was CRG that proved that it wasn't, so he's been reading up. ;)

Kurt is saying the POP shows it as an SS 350 but it ALSO has the RS option as well, thats apparent. Very nice car Cheri. Im guessing the block in the report is 3932388 which is correct for the 11D build date time frame. Good luck with it.

owe you a Coke Kurt, we posted at the same time :D

owe you a Coke Kurt, we posted at the same time :D
No we didn't. I was first. :)
Wonder how many seconds apart.....

No we didn't. I was first. :)
Wonder how many seconds apart.....

LOL! That is funny.......You two are great and I thank you for your help.
I don't like all the revisions I am doing to that ad. I am considering taking it down, till I get the report. That buyer that fell through from ebay has contacted me and is wanting to do the deal. Got to get....Take care and thanks for taking the time.

Kurt is saying the POP shows it as an SS 350 but it ALSO has the RS option as well, thats apparent. Very nice car Cheri. Im guessing the block in the report is 3932388 which is correct for the 11D build date time frame. Good luck with it.

owe you a Coke Kurt, we posted at the same time :D


Yep, that was the correct block casting number. Funny! Really felt like the antique roadshow while he was doing his decoding. Neat also how the factories were monitored for quality control issues.

great thread!!...i wish some of these were closer to me....lol...