My B.I.L.'s wife was driving their Kia the other day, when it suddenly made a weird sound and stopped. Luckily she was within a block from home, and they were able to push it to the house.

She said that the panel lights came on briefly before the motor quit. Anyways, they thought it might be the battery, so they charged it up, and the motor won't even turn over. They have only had the car for a couple of months and were considering changing the timing belt, which I have read is pretty critical on some motors to have done by a certain mileage...but they didn't.

I have done just a bit of leg work for them, and found that the Kia Rio is infamous for having a maj prob if the belt does go...because it runs on an INTERFERENCE MOTOR. But... I was not able to determine just what in the heck this type of motor is?... and how it may be different in design from the standard mill.:confused:

So... can anyone help me with this concept, before I advise them just what to do... she's a working mom who's struggling at this time, and needs transportation as soon as possible...as it is, guess I will be lending her mine until hers gets running.

Thanks guys.

capt

That means the valves hit the pistons when the belt breaks. Expect to have damaged valves.

Almost all engines are "interference engines." If you break the timing chain in any chevy V8, you'll have a bunch of bent valves and broken pistons.

'course the odds of a metal timing chain breaking are very low, while the odds of a rubber belt breaking are...

And of course there are rubber belts and there are rubber belts. Every Harley for years has been belt drive, never heard of one breaking, not even in drag race bikes. Jesel and other make belt drives for chevy race motors, they don't break.

I think this kia, and many other subcompacts, is just a case of getting what you pay for.

That means the valves hit the pistons when the belt breaks. Expect to have damaged valves.
Thanks for the quick reply, Steve...strange that Kia would make motor design with such a weak link such as this. I know that when picked up a Nissan last month, which has a dual chain instead of the belt, the sales type tended to use this feature in his presentation in selling the X-Trail.

So the motor is basically "cooked", Steve?

capt

strange that Kia would make motor design with such a weak link such as this. So the motor is basically "cooked", Steve?

capt

Capt,
I bet that 99% of engines in new cars are interferance engines and use timing belts. They are great for my business :) That is also why the recommended replacement interval for the belt is usually about 60k miles.

The engine should not be "toast" but the head will more than likely need a bit of work. Usually includes bent valves, sometimes broken valve guides etc, but nothing that cant be fixed by a good machine shop. Very rarely is any damage done to the pistons etc.

Thanks for the feedback guys:)...guess a minor tear down will be in the works to see how bad it is. Will relate this to her, eh?

I had a belt go on the old NY'er a couple of years ago...I just pulled over to the side of the road...got her towed in...and they slipped in a new belt...no probs. Ran like a charm. This was the older 3 litre mill.

Looks like some motors are more prone to considerable internal damage when the belt goes?

capt

I got lucky with a VW rabbit engine. It was non-int. I've read my Toyota corolla 1.8 and Honda CRV are non-int also, so I'm pushing my luck on those two belts. If anybody knows otherwise, please let me know.

my wife has a santa fe, which uses Kia motor. her timing belt broke while she was driving about 65 mph. destroyed two of the pistons and i ended up having to get another head from the junk yard.

Timing belt maintance is very important as some learn all to well, we see this at the dealer on a regular basis, we assume that no one reads there owners manual and we inform them of the required service based on the info from the owners manual, those that think we are overselling often get a very expensive repair qoute....then they are even more upset....

Ted,
Before you mess with it, make sure it isn't still under warranty ? I thought Kia had a 10yr/100k powertrain warranty.

Interference engine versus a free-wheeling engine. The Ford Escorts in the 1980's comes to mind as having a free-wheeling design.

ted,
before you mess with it, make sure it isn't still under warranty ? I thought kia had a 10yr/100k powertrain warranty. the maintenace of a timing belt is not under warranty..when your owner manual says to do a timing belt, do it, so this doesnt happen...

Kia= Killed In Action.

Thanks for the quick reply, Steve...strange that Kia would make motor design with such a weak link such as this. I know that when picked up a Nissan last month, which has a dual chain instead of the belt, the sales type tended to use this feature in his presentation in selling the X-Trail.

So the motor is basically "cooked", Steve?

capt


This is why you MUST ABSOLUTELY adhere to the mileage ratings on the timing belts. If it says to change the belt at 60K miles, DO NOT GO 60,001 miles unless you don't care about spending thousands of dollars to repair the entire top end and potentially some of the bottom end when it breaks. Depending on how fast the motor was turning when it broke, you are probably looking at some bent valves and possibly some broke pistons. Maybe even some head damage.

Ted,
Before you mess with it, make sure it isn't still under warranty ? I thought Kia had a 10yr/100k powertrain warranty.


I agree with this, but ONLY if you can prove you have had the timing belt changed at EVERY interval they require. If you can show receipts for changing the belt when the book and mileage are required, and this may require BEFORE the mileage requirements and not after, they may honor it, but it may have to have been changed BEFORE the mileage requires and not after. All shops make a note of the mileage when a car comes in for service. If you can show replacement before they call for it, then you may be able to argue the engine was maintained to 100% of the manufacturer requirements. If the dealership says no, don't stop there. Call the customer service hotline and talk with someone there. They don't like it when they get bad marks, especially if the car was maintained to a 100% standard.

This is what a KIA 1.5L head looks like after a timing belt breaks.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/71/71262/folders/222838/20898382002KiaRioInterferenceDamage008resize.jpg

The valves are so tiny I bet you could break one with your hands.

Heres the matching piston pictures. With the broken valves just sitting on top of the pistons.

http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/71/71262/folders/222838/20898402002KiaRioInterferenceDamage002resize.jpg

My son just overheated his (Badly) and I had to replace the head gaskets, it takes about 2 hours to strip the head off the motor, maybe another hour to get the timing belt and waterpump off. Figured I'd do the waterpump while I was there, since its behind the timing belt. You need really tiny hands to get at some of the bolts, but all of the bolts came right off without breaking or rounding off even the ehaust manifold bolts which was suprising to me. And the passenger side engine mount has to be removed.

At first i figured I could get a used motor somewhere for about 200 bucks, but apparently this is such a big issue with KIA 1.5L (before 2004 or 5 when they went to a chain drive) that the engines are in big demand, and bone yards want like 1500 bucks for a used engine with mileage around 100K. My friggin Northstar engine in my Caddy doesn't cost that much from a bone yard. Autozone will sell you a bare head for 500 bucks but the cams and cam retainer are line bored as a set and if you replace one you need to have the heads rebored.

Mark, was it on the Mass Pike? I think i saw that! LOL.

Yep, out at exit 10 (I think) its a light blue Cinco (the wagon version) like 3 weeks ago on a Saturday or Sunday.

Its all back together and running, but it has a slightly rough idle and no guts below 1500 RPM, I may have one of the cams timing off by a tooth, have to go back in and check this weekend.

Whew! Did I ever open a can of worms on this one, eh?

Well, a lot more informed than when I first started this thread...and thanks in part to the input that you guys have supplied. Looks like the interference motor shares the valves and pistons share the same space, and if the belts breaks then Newton's Law comes into effect about two things being in the same space at the same time... and all hell breaks loose as shown by the pics.

As pointed out, the used mills go from $1200-$1800, with about $800-$1000 to remove and install... a pretty pricey item for a missed belt replacement.:( I'm gonna be on top of the Sube that I have, and change the belt right smart...something that I have been putting off.

However, I was surprised at the number of sites that are out there complaining about the make of the KIA, and the number of issues related to this car... but, I guess you get what ya pay for in the long run. Just wish that the B.I.L. had talked to me first before buying.

I'm a lot now aware of the critical nature of getting this timing belt replaced in time...before its time that is.


Thanks again, crew, for coming to the plate,

capt

This is why I would never ever buy a car with belt driven cams. It was a bad idea in the 70's and it is still a bad idea!!!!!!!!!! If you have a new Chevy Aveo the belt replacement is 60000 miles we had 1 break at 50000 It needed a new head and 4 new pistons.

Exactly, Bill...that why I went for the Nissan X-Trail this time around.

As for closure on the B.I.L.'s situation, wherein both are stuggling since the loss of his job..all the pieces came together in such a favourable way for them:)...it seems at the place where the wife works, the shop teacher just happened to have an extra motor hanging around, and they can have gratis!...his students will remove and assemble what needs to be done for the experience, (obtaining marks of course.)..and they can get on with life, and get back on their financial feet. There's gotta be God out there, eh?

capt