Ok, I think I finally found my traction problem. My car is 3200lbs with me.
I know the car was nose heavy but didnt know how much or what the
weight distribution should be. We scaled the car, it was 57.6%F / 42.4%R.
The guy told me that it need to be 54% to 53% on the nose to start hookin well.
Is this true??? Whats the % that I need to shoot for? Anyone know?

We added a 100lbs in the trunk, since I could run my 15 gal fuel cell "full"
when I run the car, this got it in the high 55% front. I plan on putting the
back seat back in the car (was 50lbs stock, now should be around 25lbs gutted),
that should help a bit, and wanna do the Aerospace front brakes, which they
say are 60lbs off the front of the car. This should put me in the low 55% on nose.
I cant afford aluminum heads anytime soon but I know that the heads will get the
car in the 53-54% on the nose, so then it should hook no prob - I guess.

They just scaled a 69 camaro, (468, runs some low 10s and high 8s on gas,
around 3500lbs with stock type suspension and the CE slide-a-link bars)
It wasnt hookin well so they added a weight bar (65lbs) in the trunk, to
get it to around 53% on the nose it runs mid 1.40s on motor, and mid 1.30s
on gas. So it (theory) worked good on that car.

So is this 54%-53% front distribution right for a camaro? Will this fix my prob?
I'd like some mid 1.40s 60ft, which should be possible with my set up.
thanks

I doubt that your weight distribution is anything you cannot overcome with correct valving in the shocks, correct spring rate, etc. I'm no expert by any means, but I think it can be done without adding a bunch of weight to the back on the car. Don't most guys at your power level go to a 4 link setup anyway?

ps. I tried to send you those pics of my SSM lift bars and they kept getting shot back when I replied to your email. Do you still need them? If so, send me an adress that will accept a reply with pics attached.

I read somewhere that adding weight to the ends of a car helps the rotational effect and works the suspension quicker. Think of it like a dumb bell with one end heavier than the other rotating around the center of gravity. If the balance is right good things happen.

Eric, I'm not going to cut the car up so a 4-link or ladder bar is not for me,
I want a mostly stock look. And you should be able to send me those pics
now, I got laid off for a month because of no work, but am back now since
we have work. (same e-mail)

I also talked to some guys running A stock automatic class (stockers),
396s and 427s which were running 10.50s with Cal-traks and 1.37 60fts :eek:
carrying the front for about 40ft! These cars have a weight box in the trunk
and sometimes add over 100lbs to hook. Their wt. distr. is around 50/50.
One was a 70SS 396, 3500lbs (dynoed 560hp) and went 10.50s :confused: I know
these cars are set up perfectly, but I should be able to get my car to hook
with my setup, and think that weight distribution may be the prob/solution???

I also spoke to a guy who was running a 406 68 camaro, with traction bars
and 26x9 sticks, it was running low 10s with 1.42 60ft, with his car being
a SB car and only weighing in at 3000lbs it must have a better wt. distr.

I'd give Dave at CCRT racing a shout.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ccrtracing/ccrt.htm

He's got a 3400 lb SBC powered first gen that hooks to the tune of 1.40 60' and 10.03 @ 132 on 9" tires.

Something's working with that combo!

Our 69 Camaro weighing 3560 Lbs has nothing more than SSM bars/mono leaf springs.
1.40`s with tire spin so far.
Going by memory here graemlins/clonk.gif ; seem`s the car was 1800Lbs+ on the front.
You don`t need to get exotic on the suspension at this level.
I think mid to high 1.30`s are well within reach with the right tire and shock set up with your car and ours.

So far we`ve gone 10.19@ 130+ Mph with a 1.44 60 Ft.
4 link??? :rolleyes:

67RS, I'm not all that familiar with determining the weight distribution.Have a friend that had this done on his "Super Pro" car. He received a drawing of his car showing the weight on all four corners of the vehicle with some suggestions as to where to place any additional weight and how much.Not sure what he did to the car, but the car hooks a lot better and consistantly runs within .01 to .02 of his dial-in.Not sure if this is the way you want to go since this car was built for the strip. :D

Don't get all worried about weight percentage numbers and trying to reach the "ideal" weight bias. It'll run you in the poor house trying to achieve this goal. If you can take weight off the front easily, then fine, but other wise look at improving weight transfer to solve traction issues.

My own car (sorry, not a Camaro) has an iron headed bbc with a block with the water jackets filled within 1" of the deck. This block filler likely adds some 40 or so lbs to the block. I've never scaled by car, but I would not be surprised that the weight is close to 55-60% on the front wheels. My car transfers weight just fine. It's all in the setup.

Do you have Cal Trac bars? If not, these could likely be the key to making the car work as you would like it to...the ability to change the instant center, add preload, etc.

What kind of shocks & springs on all 4 corners?

My car is 1840lbs on the front! 1360 rear.

Big Red
If your buddy's car is 1800s, and weights 3560 then its got near
50/50% distribution! - that would explain why it hooks so well.
Thats 1 - for good wt. dist. And so far all low 10/high 9 sec. cars, that I've seen,
with leaf springs have good wt. dist.

Malibu
I hate to disagree with you, but a heavier car wont be effected as much
by a "engines weight" then a lighter one. I'm guessing your malibu, is
like most chevelles (2000lbs/1800lbs=52.6%) well balanced because
they're bigger/heavier cars.
I have the QA1s GM coil-over kit up front (with BB springs) and multileafs rear,
with CE 3-way shocks. But I had the rear shocks set on 70/30, which I hear
is wrong, 50/50 is the right setting, so I hear. I dont know if setting the shocks
to 50/50 and running a full fuel cell will make it hook but I will try that
next time out. I also dont have the front travel limiters - for full front end travel.

40Coupe
I did email Dave and he has gotten back with me with some questions,
so hopefully he can help.

Thanks everyone

Originally posted by 67RS502:
My car is 1840lbs on the front! 1360 rear.

Malibu
I hate to disagree with you, but a heavier car wont be effected as much
by a "engines weight" then a lighter one. I'm guessing your malibu, is
like most chevelles (2000lbs/1800lbs=52.6%) well balanced because
they're bigger/heavier cars.
I have the QA1s GM coil-over kit up front (with BB springs) and multileafs rear,
with CE 3-way shocks. But I had the rear shocks set on 70/30, which I hear
is wrong, 50/50 is the right setting, so I hear. I dont know if setting the shocks
to 50/50 and running a full fuel cell will make it hook but I will try that
next time out. I also dont have the front travel limiters - for full front end travel.Sorry, but wrong. My car isn't as big as a Chevelle. Mine weighs 3500 lbs with driver. The wheelbase is also much shorter than a Chevelle...mines either 107 or 108 if I remember correct. Total car length is right at 15' long and my car has very little overhang past the rear wheel.

Sorry again, but you worrying about weight distribution is looking in the wrong direction.

First of all, you have the wrong front suspension setup IMO..heavy bbc springs have high rates and little stored energy to help lift the fron. By your own admition, the car doesn't lift the front well. Those coil pver kits are for street cars, not drag cars IMO...you simply can't get a tall spring in there with the lower adjuster platform between the spring and lower control arm. Take a moment and open the hood. Grab the core support and lift up and down quickly. How much can you pull the front end up and down by hand. If the car is loose as it should be, there should be a ton of front end movement travel. If it's tight, then you simply won't get any weight transfer and have the traction problems you have described. Also, too tight a rear suspension can do the same thing in limiting weight transfer. Drag cars like soft springs and then use good shocks to control the suspension velocity.

You may have more power than I do, but your chassis simply doen't work as well as it should and your line of thinking is in the wrong direction.

You still didn't answer my question about what type of traction bar setup you run? If I remember correct, you have none?

I'm not as dumb as you likely think...my approaches have been proven by many stock type chassis racers thoughout the country. Sounds to me like you've got your mind made up and are looking for someone to tell you go ahead with what ever plans you have to get an "ideal" 50/50 weight distribution.

So, please tell us what you plan to remove or move to get yoru front end weight down in balance with the rear end? Also, once you get perfect 50/50 weight distribution, how will you deal with the fact that your suspension still doesn't work because is is too tight/won't lift quickly and transfer weight properly???

Todd is sorta correct. Weight distribution will assist a car's reaction but the shocks and springs and tires control it. The rate,velocity and other dynamics that occur during the launch need to be balanced for maximum aceleration. A 50/50 distribution will be no more effective than a 54/46 if the right spring and shock adjustments are not made.
Try www.geocities.com/kdslaby/launching (http://www.geocities.com/kdslaby/launching)

Originally posted by MY10secSS:
Todd is sorta correct.Sorta correct? What part did you find I posted that is incorrect?

Sorry folks...I'll just have to leave this topic alone. This guy apparently isn't open minded enough to even consider my point of view. I've read about his traction issues for well over a year now and he truly hasn't made any measurable gains in the 60', yet continues to believe his way os the only, or best route.

I stand by all my comments made any my ways truly do produce results. I have helped numerous racers improve their cars suspension, but you can't help someone who simply doesn't want to hear the truth or a method that is different that what they feel is the best approach.

His car is very impressive in 1/4 mile ET & mph, but his 60' shows how poorly his chassis really is. A car running low 10's should have no trouble posting 60's in the very low 1.4's minimum, maybe even mid/high 1.3's if the chassis is a very good one...even on small tires.

I'll follow along with your progress and look forward to seening some positive improvements in the future. Just imagine...if the 60's were in line with the ET where it should be for the given ET/mph, that car might just squeek in a high 9 second pass N/A.

[ 04-30-2003, 01:57 PM: Message edited by: Slowazzbu ]

Malibu
As I remember we've only had one real disagreement (exhaust),
about a year ago, so ease up. :rolleyes:
Didnt mean to start nothin, and didnt say anything about dumb.
I have found you're posts to be some of the more helpful, and respect
your opinion. Anyone who has a good workin combo like you (or Ed)
must know what their doing.
So dont take this the wrong way... I just thought that your
malibu is real similar to a 64-67 chevelle. Thats why I would think
that at 3500lbs it would be say 1900lbs on the nose which would
be 54% front.
I dont know if the wt. distr. matters much, but
have seen alot of cars which are around low 50% on the nose that
hook well, especially small tire leaf spring - which leads me to believe
there is something to this, and if there is I dont want to miss it!
I cant just ignore the fact that there was 2 stockers out there
with around 50/50 wt. dist. that 60ft 1.37, and one was
adding weight to the weight box in the trunk to make it hook better,
just the fact that they have a weight box, makes it worth while lookin
into. They were 3500-3600lbs all iron BB cars. And the front suspension
wasnt loose on them, also they have alot of front end rake.
I did email a guy who has a 1st gen BB camaro with the new QA1
front coil-over set up, which said it runs low 10s with a 1.39 - 60ft.
This was a 10" tire, foot brake bracket car. QA1 (was HAL shocks)
is used by many racers, not just street cars.
I do have traction bars - extended to hit under the spring eye, with
adjustable bolts instead of the rubber snubbers. If I cant get them to
work I may swap to some Caltrac bars later.
And I never said that "my way" was better, I dont even have a way!
I just dont want a "loose" front suspension on a street car, so I wanna
compromise a bit there. I am building a "street car" not a race car.
So I'm not a close-minded moron - but do believe there is more then
one way.... but do know that your way "loose" works. (most are loose)
Yes this is my first car which actually runs, and I'm still learning
and trying to figure things out.
graemlins/clonk.gif

isnt every 100 lbs of weight worth 7 HP?????
if you you keep adding weight to your car arent you shooting yourself in the foot so to speak???

Have heard that every 100 pounds removed is worth 0.1 second in E. T. graemlins/beers.gif