Thanks everyone for answering the small block dream but I think I am now going big block. I have a few cars and don't need this one for anything other than fun so I am now planning a 427 4bolt main, steel crank and rods with about a 10.5 CR and aluminum heads. I bought the dyno2000 software and the Isky mechanical roller 396570 gives it about 625HP at 6000rpm plus tons of torque. Questions are: Any surprises in 427 blocks that I should look for? What about this roller cam? Any block mods required for the rollers? Thanks everyone.

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'67 327 Camaro
'68 351 Mustang
'83 Porsche 911SC
Life is about choices

Good luck finding a real 427 block. If you find one, sell it for big bucks and buy a 454 truck block. Use the money that is left over for other parts. The 454 block is the same except for the cut outs in the bottom of the cylinders for the longer stroke. A 396 crank will also work in place of the 427 crank. You will have to have it re-ballanced, but you should have that done with any engine you build. The rollers work without any block mods.

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'69 RS/SS396 pro street
427/4spd/9"

So what are the 427 blocks that people like Performance Automotive and the others selling if not real ones?

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'67 327 Camaro
'68 351 Mustang
'83 Porsche 911SC
Life is about choices

So what's up with the big block? They are heavy and really not any faster than a small block. Just more money. They do have a place, but not here. My 383 w/ the old Dart heads makes almost 600 in street trim. With an upgrade in comp and heads later, I have seen 640 plus on similar engines I have sold or have helped on. Less weight and less dollars. Now, I know this will open up the arguments from the B/B guys, but I see in all but the Super Street and Outlaw, small block is a better way to go. Just my opinion on that one. On your question, a 454 block w/a 3.76 crank(396 and 427) which are still available new as well as used. Galen

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S/B Chevy Lover
67 Camaro street car
10:50's @ 128 on motor w/383 cid
79 Z28 w/383 9.1:1 3.73:1 Restoring stock apearance
13:40's @ 101 stock exh.& intake& Qjet
smog legal
Camaro Lover

There is nothing like opening the hood and looking at wall to wall engine filling up the engine bay http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif , and for the same amount of effort a big block will smoke a small block. So what if it's heavier, harder to work on, and more expensive! It's just one of those things that "if you have to ask why, you wouldn't understand".

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'69 RS/SS396 pro street
427/4spd/9"

Question then is: With aluminum heads, how much heavier is the BB than an all cast iron SB? If it's less than 100lbs., then the low end torque makes it a winner. And the pretty factor really does matter when you look under the hood. A 383 is a great wannabe but it's sort of like a wonderbra.

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'67 327 Camaro
'68 351 Mustang
'83 Porsche 911SC
Life is about choices

Now, Now, come on guy's!!!

Lets be civil here, Angie might be peeking in.

Nothing but cubic money and possibly a 6-71 lung beats cubic inches. As for a big block being too heavy, the money can take care of that. Just go aluminum.

I think an aluminum 454 small block with the "splayed valve heads" would be fantastic!!! But da-n pricy!!! IMHO pdq67

How about going for one of those G.M.
Perf. Parts all aluminum ZL-1 crate engines?

(If you can get past the cost), they weigh about as much as a small block and have the power of a big block. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

I don't talk much, but you better believe I'm reading everything !! I'm learning a lot. Very interested in this one, because I'm preparing to swap over to a big block. I thought I was going to get a 454, but the guy changed his mind about selling it. Instead, he said he could build a 427.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but what I'm reading says the blocks are the same except the longer stroke, right? Any additional info about the 427 would be appreciated.

Thanks!!

OK First 600HP small blocks might be numerous somewhere, but not here in Buffalo. Or anywhere else that I've lived.

So if you guys can build a 600 HP street mouse that as reliable as a 525HP rat, more power to ya. Me, I'm an idiot and dont trust anyone, so I just dont believe it until I see it. Simple minds are like that.

It is only IMHO that a street rat, while initally more expensive than a mouse, provides a more reliable platform and a faster car.

I'm not terribly experiecned having built 3 mice and only one rat ( and the L88).

With alum heads ( not the hot ticket BTW) my 427/L88 weighs 35 lbs more than an iron 350. Thats 35 lbs I'd gladly give up.

I can build an L88 clone for half the cost of a 383 600HP deal. But my rat will only pump out about 540 HP. Not 600. I need 500+ ci from a rat to do 600 RELIABLY.

Galen is a pro, and I'm just a schmoe. But there is no way you can compare, dollar for dollar, the rat and the mouse.

For the same cost as the famous 600HP 383, I KNOW I can build you a 540 that will do 600 at 5800 rpm. 700 at 6500 rpm. 10:1 on 93 pump.

Torque is where its at. And I've run my share of LT1's. I'll take a rat anyday for a street application.

In my mind a 600HP rat is a MUCH more streetable animal than a 600HP mouse.

My buddy runs a 509 in a 68. Still has the 302 emblems on,. Folks still think it a 302. 2600 stall/3.73s he clicks off 6.75 1/8 and 10.70s in 1/4 and gets 14mpg. Its his daily in the summer. He ran mice for a long time.

Once you run a rat you will never go back. You feel it in the seat of your pants.

OK, non subjective stuff. 396 crank is a 427 crank so you can use a 396. No prob. 454 blocks are interchangabel so just use a 454 block. 2 bolt v 4 bolt is academic unless you' spinning well past 7 and run a manual trans.

Aluminum heads make less power. The trick setup these days with a rat is to build a "hi velocity" rat. Iron Oval ports/small tube header/dual plane intake/small SOLID roller and anywhere from 10.5:1 on up. But this works best with CUBES. 427s like to see 7000 and my detuned 88 doens't seem to suffer from lack of low end.

I run aluminums becuase my engine is a crate I bought when I was a kid and thats the way it came.

396/427s are neat becuase they spin. I freak folks out when I race because my shift point is high.( plus the Xpipe exhasut makes it sound like 8000 ).

So if you like to spin to 7, you can do this easily with a 396/427. BUT, if I was building a 6500 rpm (tops) mill, I would stroke it as much as I could. So if you are to choose between a 454 and a 427, choose the 454, unless your a nostalgia freak like me. It wont be a free spinner like the 427, but you should make more useable power in the 3500-5500 band which is where you make it or break it on the street.

I dont have cam numbers memorized, but if your ISKY grind is somewhere between 235 and 245 @0.050 and .600-.630 lift on a 110-112 LSA than you are exactly correct with grind. I've heard good things of the COMP SR288 as well as the small Crane roller.

You will incur multiple additional expenses for the solid roller. But they can fit right into an old block and even use iron distrib gear. You'll get into the cam thrust deal , but its really no hassle.

You need to choose between high rpm hp and mid rpm HP before you go much further. The cam should work well in both apps, it shouldn;t be too radical. The choices are port size, header size etc and, of course, stroke.

I think my next rat project is to build a 505 ( stroked 454 +.030 ) that looks identical to a 396/325 HP mill. You wanna talk about a sleeper!

And please tie your frames. I cant believe the twisting that my humble lil L88 did to a 68 subframe and it was even tied. No slicks either. Tie them good. The rat caused a crack in the rear pillar on the 68. thought the rear window was going to pop out!

Oh, go higher than 10.5 with alums. I run 10.85 and its just right with 93 Mobil. Cam specs similar to your assumed ones.

The debate is very subjective, and I've never driven a streetable 600HP mouse, while rats I have and own one. There is nothing wrong with mouse motors, but all I can say is this, and it is a truth, not an opinion...

Once you take a walk on the dark side ( the world of the rat) you wont go back. This is true in most, if not all cases, of folks that have gone from mouse to rat.

So you can call me whatever you;d like, but talk to some folks that have gone that way and see what they say, TO THE MAN!

And I have no product to sell. Just my experience and the experince of others to draw upon and share.

If Galen can build a 383 to eat my L88 ( actually alot will now because I'm reluctant to gear my car properly)hats off. But around here, there aren;t too many stout mice that a stout rat cant eat.



[This message has been edited by 427L88 (edited 11-15-2000).]

angie rs/ss,
454 block,396 crank, 427 pistons makes a 427. The 396 and 427 cranks are the same stroke but they are not the same crank. The 427 crank has a thicker counter weight at the center. 427 pistons are heaver than 396 so you must re-ballance it. 454, 427, and 396 rods are interchangable. Go for as many cubic inches as you can get. I built a 427 because I had a new set of pistons that I needed to use. When I get a chance I'm going to go up to 509 inches. I have the 4 inch crank and a bow tie block, so all I need are the pistons and the time to do it.

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'69 RS/SS396 pro street
427/4spd/9"

And I think you'll find that you dont have alot of option is 427 pistons. I used TRW's and milled the domes to get my 10.8. I still have the orignal L88 (TRW) slugs ( milled also ), they are 4.250 + 0.00

509, now we're talking a dream engine!

If you do a 427, please let it spin. You'll have no problem with 7000 from this motor if its assembled right and balanced meticulously. Gear it accordingly.

And most of all... HAVE FUN!



[This message has been edited by 427L88 (edited 11-15-2000).]

Let me see if I've got this right...

1) Size really does matter.

2) You stroke a small one, it just ain't the same.

3) Wonderbra wannabes are just for show and don't cut it when it's one on one.

I love this place! Great posts by the way! If I had the cash, Id pump mine up also. http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif

Mark

Don't forget that a 496 is a cheap engine for its size. Mines built like a big truck engine and if its within +/-5 percent of what Dyno2000 predicts I will be happy.

550hp at 5500rpm and 580T at 4500rpm.

Oh, what would a lung give me??? hee, hee!!
pdq67

I have a hopped up small block and let me tell you that big blocks have great power.I once raced a big block 440 in a charger with 2.76's in the back!!! (I know its a mopar!!)but it kicked 3 of the baddest small block chevys around.(including mine!)

Just so you know GM has discontinued the 3.76 stroke BBC crank http://www.camaros.net/forum/frown.gif .
Source: http://www.chevelles.com/forum/Forum4/HTML/003792.html
I am going stroker BBC with blower for my pro street 68 Chevelle. Can't wait to spin the 19.5 Mickeys http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

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Jeff
69 SSRS 396(roller 427 :D )
My Chevs (http://www.tcg158.homestead.com)