I am going to start saving for a new engine. Was thinking about a custom built 383 from a local machine shop. Figured this would cost me $4,000? Then I started thinking it may be nice to have a roller cam, so I asked around and got everything from "roller cams are the only way to go" to "don't try to use a roller cam on the street". Of course this would add to my 4,000 guestimate locally.

So, I started researching GM crate engines, and the Fast Burn 385 seems like a good option, and then maybe upgrading it with a HOT cam kit in the future. I would assume GM roller cammed engines don't have the durability issues that "converted" engines have? I think 385 HP would be enough for my goals of having a great fair weather driver/2-3 times per year stip use car. A fast burn 385 can be had for < $4400 from Jeg's.

So, which way would you go? I will drive this car to and from work on nice days 40 miles round trip on the highway, cruising around town, getting groceries, doing big burn outs ;) , running the 1/4 mile, etc.

What do you think? Fast Burn 385 or custom built 383?

What do I need to consider if I do the Fast Burn? Will the stock fuel line be sufficient (originally a 327 PG car)? How about headers? I currently have Hooker Headers on my GM "mickey mouse" heads and a Flowmaster 2.5" dual exhaust. Will I need to get new headers? I also have a 650 double pumper, which shouldn't be a problem either way I go. Let me know anything else I will need to buy new or upgrade with a Fast Burn or custom built 383....I hate surprise 500 purchases.

I have an Autogear M22 w/3.73 gears, and in the long run, I'll probably get a Tremec TKO.

Thanks for listening :D

[ 07-25-2003, 07:25 AM: Message edited by: Spames ]

wonder why anyone would say not to use roller cams for a driver...most of the new GM motors are roller...... :confused:

I'd LOVE to have the 385!

You'll need a different flywheel with either engine, unless you get the 383 internally balanced. Figure $2-300. If you keep the 68 alternator setup, you will have to use your short water pump on the 350 FB. There might be some clearance issues with the HEI. Everything else should bolt up fine with the FB. Shop around for prices on the 350 FB. A buddy of mine just bought one a couple of months ago for $4100 from a local Chevrolet dealer. Saved a lot on shipping costs.

I haven't checked it out from a budget perspective, but the HT 383 is supposed to have a very good long block. GM may even be selling a short block version now. One of the mags recently did some testing of one of these engines and made some very good power numbers with it, although with aftermarket heads. Depending on the price of the short block, you might be able to build it for around $4,400.

Forgot to mention I now have full MSD ignition, and the 3901001?? 350 engine.. Would I still need a new flywheel with a FB?

My vote would be to go with the 383 with a roller cam. That is the route that I am going right now. I think that you would like the torque of the 383 much better especialy for thoes tier fring events. Also there are many many people on this site that use roller cams with out any problems. THere should be no reason that you can't use a retrofit roller in you 383 build up. The one I have chosen is the comp cams xr 282. IT makes power from 2000-5800 and should have a good sound to it. CHP did a build up where they used this cam in a 383 with a set of 215 TFS heads and it made 497hp and 500lbs of torque. It may cost a few dollars more to do the 383 but it will be money well spent that you will be able to enjoy for years to come.

GM FastBurn 385 can be had for $4,026 from
GM Parts Direct (http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/results.cfm?singlepart=1&partnumber=12496769)

BTW, its 425HP with the hot cam.

DESCRIPTION: FAST BURN 385 ENGINE
With more ZZZ through ZZ4 crate engines sold over the years than any other high performance crate engine, it only makes sense that GMPP would continue to improve that successful family of engines. The new Fast Burn uses the proven ZZ4 shortblock and ads to it the Fast Burn cylinder heads for 385 value packed horsepower. With value in mind, the Fast Burn uses stamped rocker arms and the same ZZ4 camshaft that powers thousands of hot rods. The Fast Burn is an excellent choice for the basis of a custom engine. Its strong forged steel crankshaft and forged powdered metal connecting rods have been proven to 500 horsepower. And its Fast Burn cylinder heads are hungry for a little more camshaft, approximately 425 horsepower at 6000 rpm is achievable by adding the HOT cam and 1.6 self aligning rocker arms.

12498332 Engine Parital 383ci ($3,150.00 from Sallee)
What a great starting point to build your own hot rod 383 engine. The only major items you will need to complete your engine are cam, lifters, cylinder heads, and manifold.

This 383 ci partial engine is used on all 383 crate engines.

GM is supposed to come out with a new 383 HP model this fall. It comes with hotcam and FB heads. It has been assigned a GM part number but no price as of yet. A buddy of mine who works in the parts dept at a GM dealership has been keeping up with this and waiting to purchase one for his 69 as well.

So wait a few more months if possible.

I'm looking at a year or so timeframe, so no rush.... So basically, it's the Fast Burn 385 with a 400 crank... It'll be interesting to hear what kind of HP they advertise over the ZZ430. I guess we'll see what 33 extra cubes will do.

Go w/ a turn key High performance GMPP engine. You'll do it once and enjoy it for years to come.

joe c

I gotta, I just gotta!!

Ohhhh!!!! Come to the "Dark side" and install a 468/496 BB!!!

Both 500t and hp come real easy when the "force is with you"!!!

AND when the dreaded, "more power, Scotty" bug bites later, 600+ hp is downright easy ta get!!

I have $3800 to $4000 in my 550hp, homemade "tow-truck" 496, CC 282S solid cam and all!!

BUT I realize it won't corner like a SB equipped car...

But, ohhh the sight of them wide, shiny chrome valve covers when you pop the hood!!

Carry on... He, He!!! pdq67

Although both the 383 and ZZ4 have forged cranks, the 383 has a 4340 crank and the ZZ4 has a 1053. I am leaning towards a 383 short block go from there.

RamJet 502! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

pdq-- If YOU build me a big block for under 4,000, I'll put it in my car ;) ... Deal?

502? Common'... I just got married 7 months ago... I don't want to be living in the shed already :D

Ok then, lets say I get the short block 383, and add... what heads?, what cam?, and what intake? That's all I'd need, right? Since this would be a roller motor, I'm lost... Never built an engine, never put on heads, but I did witness somebody install a cam... once... But I do consider myself to be somewhat intelligent, patient (when I want to be), and I can read... which is a good thing. Can the heads, and cam be installed by someone who has NEVER done it?

www.amerspeed.com (http://www.amerspeed.com) makes some killer small blocks... most aren't roller cammed, but when you're making that much power... who cares?!? ;)

The GM 385 also looks like a good piece. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Buying a crate engine from a chevy dealer is just like buying a car. They can be talked down. Just go in and say xxxx dealer is selling their FB385 for $xxxx and they will bargain. Thats how it is at our local Chevy dealer, Dobles Chevy in Manchester NH. You won't have to pay the delivery either.
George

I say that if you go with the GMPP 383, buy the complete motor and sell the heads and intake to recoup some of the additional money you spent over the short block.

I think it's about $400 more to go with the complete engine, but you'd have all the roller valve train components that you wouldn't get if you just bought the short block. Roller lifters aren't too cheap these days. Just something to think about....

These come with the hyper pistons. If a guy was to ever bore one of these would it be difficult to find pistons for a 3.80" stroke? Also, do these come with flat top pisons? Just curious as to what kind of compression I'd be looking at if I threw a set of 64cc heads on one???

A friend of mine built a 383 for about $2000 using a post 86 350 (hyd. roller and 1 piece rear seal). He talked to an old head guy who convinced him the heads he had were good enough to be brought up to 2.02 intake, bowl blended, installed pressed in studs and machined for taller spings. Head job was $400 and was included in the $2000 price above. Of course his was a street motor built to make torque from about 1200 to 4500 or so.

-dnult

The new engine is called the ZZ383/425. PN 12498772.
HP 425 @ 5400
TQ 460 @ 4500
The camshaft is 12370846, I think this is a different cam than the "HOT" cam. I was told so by a GM engineer at SEMA last Nov. It was supposed to be out by this spring...

It is the HT 383 "truck" shortblock with fast burn heads and roller cam.
David

[ 07-27-2003, 10:08 AM: Message edited by: davidpozzi ]

By the way, typically people associate problems with rollers only with "solid rollers" not hydraulic rollers, Hydraulic rollers last very long and are very reliable, when you get into real big size hydraulic rollers, you might run into valve spring problems, and at high rpm's sometimes the weight of the hydraulic roller lifter can be a problem, but other than that they would probably be considered more friendly than a flat tappet hydraulic. Now solid rollers is a whole different deal.

I'm not a big crate engine fan personally, but if you have never built an engine before and don't like suprises a GM crate engine from your local dealer might be the way to go.

I would steer clear of anything mail order, there have been a lot of posts on this site about warranty issues with big name builders. After all, what are you going to do if you have a problem and the company offering that "great" warranty is across the country?

As for roller cams, the hydraulic rollers are great, but plan on solid if you really want to rev it over 6,000 or so. Solid rollers are debate-able for a street engine, and definately not a good choice for a daily driver. Sounds like the fast burn engine with the hot cam is right up your alley. Just get it local . . .

Just my opinion.

I highly reccomend the following...

It's gonna cost you but it's worth it!

Jim,
the best way to do it is to contact a local engine builder, that is reputable, and discuss what you're looking for in a motor.
If your goals are obtainable, and realistic, you can create a custom build that will suite your needs/wants and out-perform the crate engine.

Hmmm... well, at least I have plenty of time to decide...

I was reading this article in Hot Rod about "500 ft/lbs in six easy steps" well, easy for some, but this sounds pretty cool.. even if you take the first 2 or 3 steps.

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/66278/

To come up with 370 peak HP, and 466 torque, they added 1.6 rockers (which I already have on my engine) and a performer RPM intake on the HT383 crate engine.

The new 383 David mentioned doesn't sounds a whole lot better than a FB 385 w/HOT cam setup, and 69RS/SS's combo sounds a little wild for something I'll rack up a considerable amount of miles on.

I still haven't ruled out the local builder, but for me, there's some sort of piece of mind that comes with a GM crate engine...

[ 07-28-2003, 04:37 AM: Message edited by: Spames ]

I have the FB385 with the hot cam and 1.6 roller rockers and I love it. It has incredibly docile manners for putting around town, idles like a stocker, and goes like a scalded dog....the 383 would probably out run it by a bit, just due to the extra grunt from the cubes.

I believe the cam David speaks of (12370846) has a bit more duration and a bit less lift than the hot cam, and is designed for use with 1.5 ratio rockers.

Originally posted by BPOS:
docile manners ; idles like a stockerWHat kind of "stocker"??

It reminds me of my dad's 70 Impala w/300 hp 350. If you didn't remember that you had started the engine, you couldn't be sure it was running. Smooth, in other words.

It can, but I wouldn't recommend it. Murphy's law reigns. At the very least, have someone with experience on call in case Mr. Murphy shows up.

Spames,

Please check Speed-O-Motive out and their cheap stroker rotating assemblies!

The cast version will do you fine unless you want to go all forged for more power later! But at 5500 to 6000rpm for up to and slightly more than 550hp, the cast rotating will do you fine, imho...

Don't forget to add balancing, either by a local shop or by them, too.... Add a 454 stick flywheel or flexplate and a stock balancer too.. THEN BALANCE HER..

You will need to make sure they are selling JUST what you want, but other that that everything should be fine!

Add one 454 core motor blockfor say $300/$500 or so and a set of Merlin cast-iron oval port heads for right at $1100 plus S&H and you should be under $4000 by a small amount!

Hot tank the core and bore her, say $200 or so, too...

Oooooh, yes young Luke.. May the force be with you!!

And if that isn't enough "Dark Side" power, look into a 598" motor at 4.6" bore x 4.5" stroke using a Merlin standard deck height Pro Block so it looks just like a warmed over 396!! He, He!!!

Subtract out the $500 core motor and then add back about $2500 or so for the Pro block or just $1900 or so for a Merlin II or III block, (plus S&H), and you have it!!!

I know my next motor is gonna be a big 598" one, just for grins!!

pdq67

Wow pdq, have you ever got an imagination ;)

How is speed-o-motive's stuff? They have some good looking short blocks too. 383 w/cast pistons for 1350... BTW: when do you need to step up to the hyperpeutonic(sp?) pistons? Or, how much will the cast pistons take?