well, once again guys i'm figuring, hey why not jsut spend the extra money (i gotta stop thinking this way) but anywho, since Strange and Moser axles with c-clip eliminators both cost exactly the same amount, $430 which should i buy? they are both famous for quality, but i know Moser eliminators work fine on the street, but will strange?
What do i need to do to install these eliminators? will i still need the outer axle bearings?
thanks again guys.

CNC, the c-clip eliminators take the place of your outer axle bearings.

I have buddies with Strange axles, Mark Williams, and Moser's. I guess it all comes down to personal preference as none of them have had any problems with there axles.

I have Stange eliminators and have had no problems with them.

BTW, don't go crazy and get caught up in the spline counts, a twelve bolt has 30 splines and you can get 33 spline parts. Any more is a waste of money and added wieght, unless your building a pro-mod car. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

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My 69 (http://www.camarogenerations.com/memberfiles/sheets.html)

Are you sure you need the C clip eliminators? Once you put them on there is no going back, because you have to cut off the ends of the housing to put them on.

------------------
'69 RS/SS396 pro street
427/4spd/9"
Byars Performance
High Performance Drive Train Parts And Service
www.lubedealer.com/biggearhead (http://www.lubedealer.com/biggearhead)

You might want to try www.tomsdifferentials.com (http://www.tomsdifferentials.com)

His stuff is much cheaper and at least as good as the Moser and Strange stuff.

Mike


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'99 Firebird Formula
11.91 @ 117

Freddie, i want to keep this as safe as possible, so i'll just go for em. they dont cost much more the Moser c-clip axles and since i have the bare housing i need to buy new axles anyway, from your experience which are better Moser or Strange? i'm going with Strange Bearing caps, so if i want to keep all the companies the same i'll go with Strange, but do they back there products like Moser Does?
I'm adding Coil-Over Mounts and ladder bars to the housing also, and taking off the leaf spring perches(the old ones are all rusty, and crappy anyway), so i'm gonna be cutting anyway. i know you dont like cutting up rears, but i dont see a way around it. My dad's one of the best welders in NJ, so if we want to put new spring perches on there i'm sure we can do that too.
Btw whats the best way to clean out an axle tube?
RatMotr, thanks. and i'm gonna stick with the 30 splines, this car might hit 11's, and it will be basically a street car.
thanks guys.

Hey while you got that rear end apart might as well break out the stick welder and weld
the axle tubes all the way around the diff.
housing.
This might not matter but a heard that moser
is comming out with a new logo for their axle
ends might want to ask them when it comes out if you go with moser.
Jeff

Let me make a suggestion. Why don't you try to find a Impala 12 bolt and do the mods on it? You could sell your Camaro housing and pay for some of the other parts with that money. If you use the Impala housing you could use the Moser or Strange housing ends that take the 9" Ford axle bearings. These are much better than the C clip eliminators and can take greater side loads than the eliminator kits. You could weld and modify this housing any way you want without messing up a Camaro housing, and be driving your car while you are doing it. Just something to think about.

------------------
'69 RS/SS396 pro street
427/4spd/9"
Byars Performance
High Performance Drive Train Parts And Service
www.lubedealer.com/biggearhead (http://www.lubedealer.com/biggearhead)

Freddie, i'm gonna do it to this one, i'm tired of looking for 12 bolts, and i already started working on this one.
i'm driving on the 10 bolt in there now while working on this one, thanks for the suggestion though.
Btw do you sell Strange Axles and eliminators?
Rodknocker, what is the benefit of welding the tubes in?

OK I'll explain it the best I can, The
rear end is held in place by bolting the
springs to the spring perch (sp) which are
welded onto the axle tubes, axle tubes are
are just pressed into diff. housing then
factory spot welded most of the time not all
that well, when you take off hard on the gas
this puts alot of twisting effort at the
diff housing (the ring gear wants to twist
upward out of the top of diff. housing on
weak welded axle tubes this twisting can
actully twist the axle tube while inside the
diff housing car will still be drivable but
one side of car will sit slightly higher
than the other in rear (next time you sand
blast a rearend take a look at how its welded) since you have it that far apart jus
thought I would suggest welding the tubes
in. Hope this helps http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
JEFF

Jeff,
thanks for the suggestion, i'll ask my dad after i sand blast it, are the pumkins cast or Forged though? he wont weld cast becuase it cracks easily if you do it wrong, but forged would be fine.

I'm pretty sure it's just cast. But even so, it's not that hard to weld cast iron.

-Joe

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79' Z28 4-spd- built 355, TRW 10:1 forged flat tops, WP SportsmanII heads, Crane Energizer 230/230 duration .480"/.480" lift, Edelbrock Victor Jr., Holley 750cfm, Dynomax headers, dual 3" flowmasters :) 3.73 Posi 10-bolt

I'm on big gear head's side on this one.

I too have c-clip eliminators. I put them in under the impression that the stock c-clip system is unsafe and weak. Boy was I wrong.

If the bearing housing on the end of the axle tubes is in good shape there is no way you could convince me now to put c-clip eliminators on.

If your goal is to eliminate the c-clips because of NHRA requirements but still want positive axle retainment the large Ford axle ends, bearings, and axles are the way to go.

I'll sell you my Mark Williams 12-bolt axles and c-clip eliminator system for a really good price if you are interested. Only 5000 miles and I'll put in new seals.

------------------
The Red Beast http://www.geocities.com/casanoc

CarlC,
the housing isnt in very good shape. its rusty and the bearings in there are frozen, so i'm just gonna do this and go for Moser Axles and there new eliminator design.
I'm interested in the Mark williams design, e-mail me please.

The center is cast nodular iron and requires some special welding techniques to do it right. Your dad probably knows how to do this. It needs to be preheated and use a rod with a higher nickel content. This will still make the casting a little weaker, but keep the tubes from twisting. You would be suprised how often the tubes get twisted in these rear ends.

------------------
'69 RS/SS396 pro street
427/4spd/9"
Byars Performance
High Performance Drive Train Parts And Service
www.lubedealer.com/biggearhead (http://www.lubedealer.com/biggearhead)

thanks Freddie, i'll tell him.

OK I'll explain it the best I can, The
rear end is held in place by bolting the
springs to the spring perch (sp) which are
welded onto the axle tubes, axle tubes are
are just pressed into diff. housing then
factory spot welded most of the time not all
that well, when you take off hard on the gas
this puts alot of twisting effort at the
diff housing (the ring gear wants to twist
upward out of the top of diff. housing on
weak welded axle tubes this twisting can
actully twist the axle tube while inside the
diff housing car will still be drivable but
one side of car will sit slightly higher
than the other in rear (next time you sand
blast a rearend take a look at how its welded) since you have it that far apart jus
thought I would suggest welding the tubes
in. Hope this helps http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
JEFF

I realize this is a very old post, but was doing some research on welding axle tubes to the housing and something caught my eye on the above posted "one side of car will sit slightly higher
than the other in rear ". This got me to thinking about my car as it does sit about a 1 1/2" higher on the passenger side which has really been bugging me. I'm going to go home and check to see if the axle tube has rotated in the housing. If I think this through correctly, the tube would be rotated clockwise as being viewed from the passenger side wheel well. What do you guys think? What got me to looking at this started when I a mounted a set of ET streets on my car last fall and it finally started hooking really well to the point it lifts the driver side tire at the line. My 12 bolt rear end is stock with the exception of Superior axles which are supposed to be stronger than stock. I was also considering converting over to C-clip eliminators but seeing much debate over this too. Not sure which direction to take yet. Open to all comments, thanks!

It would take a SERIOUSLY screwed up rear end housing to make the car sit higher on one side than the other. The ends of the axle tubes are controlled by the leaf springs -- the leaf springs and the parts they bolt to control the ride height.

The more likely cause of an uneven ride height is a problem with the suspension or a problem with body twist.

Eric, do you have C-clip eliminators on your car? You may remember me, I met you at Drag Week last year in Indy, got rained out ;-( . I'm just questioning the need for this on my car. I sure would hate to spit out a wheel.

Hey John! Yes I do remember you! All that rain sucked for sure -- didn't you and your buds run to the store and grab tie wraps for me?

I do not have C clip eliminators per se', I have Ford 9" housing ends which accomplish the same thing without the leak problems inherent with most of the c clip eliminator kits. The axle tube gets cut off on the end and the Ford end gets welded on it its place.

I went this route with an 8.5" 10 bolt rear end and am very glad I did. The rear end has proven to be bullet proof (knock on wood) since I put it in 2.5 years ago. And best of all, since this is a common rear end and has common parts, I only have about $1100 into it. Here is what I had done to the rear end.

Axle tubes fully welded to the center section (helps eliminate that flexing talked about earlier in this thread)
Shortened the rear end (it was a wider Nova or gen 2 Camaro rear end)
33 spline Moser axles
Spool
4.10 gear set
New bearings and seals
cast aluminum cover with the support

I welded new perches on myself when I set it in the car to get the pinion angle I wanted.

That sounds like a nice set up. Yes, that was me and my buddies, glad to help out anytime. Not sure what direction I should take on my rear end as it is the original 12 bolt and cutting the ends off doesn't sound that appealing. I may just look for a different 12 bolt already modified and just swap it out. Do you have any problems running that spool on the street?

I've had great experience with STRANGE.
Fellow Racers have MOSER.
Nether of us have had a moments worth of problems.

Good luck finding another 12 bolt. They do make good c clip axles that would fit your 12 bolt if you absolutely do not want to modify your existing piece. Another option would be to find an 8.5" 10 bolt like mine and make that a "race piece". Sounds like a step back from the 12 bolt but the 8.5" 10 bolt is just as strong as the 12 IMO -- the 12 bolt does have a slight advantage with a ring gear that is a little bigger but the bearings are all pretty much the same size between the two units. The case of the 10 bolt is every bit as strong as the 10 -- maybe even stronger.

I do not have an issue driving the spool on the street at all. You have to give a little gas around corners instead of coasting through them like you can do with a posi, but that is the only thing I have noticed. If you push your car a lot (I sure hope not) then definately stick to a posi. Otherwise the spool is great and hooks better then any posi I had ever had.

If it were me and only shooting for 10's or 11's I wouldn't go ladder bar. CalTracs and their split mono's will do the trick. You won't need to modify the floor forthe the crossmember and it will be much more street friendly.JMO
As for Strange or Moser I use both with no problems but I use the Ford ends instead of the c clip elim kit. I have you the c clip elim kit in the past and have found the best way to keep them for leaking is toss the gasket and use silicone instead.