I have a 32 Ford 3 window coupe with a Crate 350 gm goodwrench motor Part #10067353, Casting # 10066036. I want to buy a set of high performance heads for street/strip. I already have the following: Edelbrock 600cfm, performer dual plain, tube headers, Victor waterpump, double roller timing set, HEI ignition, Comp Cams Extreme Energy 268H cam with lifters, c-10 high stall converter. I want a matching set of heads and am willing to add roller rockers and RPM Air Gap manifold. There is just too many Heads to choose from. Large intake runners, Big valves, cnc porting, angled valves, large exhaust ports, swirl blends, etc. Is there anyone out there that can recommend the best heads and what specs to look for or look out for? I know bigger is not always better and I am in love with my cam and not willing to change it or 600cfm carburator but the rest is up for grabs. HELP........PLEASE.......
Thanks,

Ken

There's nothing wrong with that cam.However, with that 600 there is no reason to swich to a hi $$$ head and better intake.Swaping to a more efficient head will increase your volumetric efficiency,your motor will now want a larger CFM carb,if you don't give it what it want's,you will end up being even more under carbed than you are now.The results will end up leaving you without the performance that you just spent all that $$$ on.But hey,at least you'll have the bragging rights of having those "PRETTY HEADS".

If you moove to a larger carb(750VS),better heads(Performer RPM's or Air Flow Reserch 190's),and a Performer RPM,your motor will be transformed into a truely amazing animal to be sure.

Remember,you must always match your components for great results.



[This message has been edited by mutant 68 (edited 11-24-2000).]

Mutant 68, I ran the GM Desk top dyno and there is little to no increase in torque or horsepower between a 600cfm and 750 cfm carb.
In fact, the smaller 600 has better low end. I ran these with a High performance head, 2.02 & 1.6 valves, bowl ported and roller rockers and cam up with 404 HP at 5000 rpm and 420 HP at 6000 RPM. With my stock heads I am at 271 HP at 5000 and 220 HP at 6000. Going up to a 750cfm adds about 8 HP at the top end. I think the $250.00 for a 750cfm is not worth 8 HP. Did I miss something? Or is GM wrong?

Thanks,

Ken
<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mutant 68:
There's nothing wrong with that cam.However, with that 600 there is no reason to swich to a hi $$$ head and better intake.Swaping to a more efficient head will increase your volumetric efficiency,your motor will now want a larger CFM carb,if you don't give it what it want's,you will end up being even more under carbed than you are now.The results will end up leaving you without the performance that you just spent all that $$$ on.But hey,at least you'll have the bragging rights of having those "PRITTY HEADS".

If you moove to a larger carb(750VS),better heads(Performer RPM's or Air Flow Reserch 190's),and a Performer RPM,your motor will be transformed into a truely amazing animal to be sure.

[This message has been edited by mutant 68 (edited 11-23-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The really accurate computer dyno simulations used by top engine builders are very costly,in the thousads.The camshaft program used by Motor Machine and Supply in Arizona,used by some Top Fuel teams,is one that I know of,and they don't accept compromises.There are a couple of low cost programs that are fairly accurate that some hi-performance shops and racers use,Engine Analyzer Pro from Performance Trends,and the Engine Pro from Patric Hale.Both of wich are not as accurate as the big time programs but better than most.
My Engine Pro Program predicted a minimum 17 HP gain with Air Flow Research 190's.That's damn near a two tenths of a second gain in performance.
In the real world the performance gain might be more than that.Your carb probably isn't atchieving enough of a pressure drop to atchieve full power because of the low weight and the duel plane intake.By all means don't take my word on it,there is a man who is practically a god when it comes to engines,his name is David Vizard.Find out what he has to say about carb sizing at
]http://www.motortecmag.com/art1d.htm] (http://www.motortecmag.com/art1d.htm)

This only tells part of the story,the rest is revealed in his book called "How To Build HP-Part 2 Carbs & Induction Systems".NO,I'm not a salesmen.I just bought this book and I'm trying to relay some of the info.Good reading.



[This message has been edited by mutant 68 (edited 12-02-2000).]

Consider going with some Dart 180 heads and just the latest Performer (I think). Do a slight bowl job on the exhausts, nothing out of the ordinary.
Theres a story in one of the latest mag's about this so you might look it up. I Think it's in CHP or CC. pdq67

pdq67-Good choice.You seem to be up on the hole combo thing.

ksmith-If you have to keep your 600 then the Dart 180's or the Performer RPM heads would suit your motor better than the AFR'S.With 350 cubes and your current cams 224 intake duration at .050 you should look at heads that have an intake runner volume of no more than 180 cc.The exception to that rule is the AFR 190.Going larger than this will only hurt your low speed driveability.
No real need to go with a roller rocker with any head that is mentioned above.Also,Going with a RPM intake over the "NEW" Performer will only get you slightly over 10 HP.



[This message has been edited by mutant 68 (edited 11-24-2000).]

All good thoughts and insights. Does anyone have experience ( or has had a tech discussion with AFR ) on the iron heads they are now offering? Also, how about Sportman II's? I had read they are good with some work on the exhaust side. What is a typical cost for this work?

RickD,

If you're going with iron heads the Iron Eagles already have a much better exhaust side than the Sportsmen II's and don't require any work, unless we're talking about a max effort small block. They also cost the same so you save money by not having the exhausts ported. If I remember correctly they outflow the Sportsmen II's by almost 20 cfm intake and 25-30 on the exhaust at .500 lift out of the box.


The AFR Pro Action heads (standard 23 degree) flow 282 int. and 195 cfm ex. at .700 lift; not sure what they flow at a streetable cam lift. They're about $1000 a set complete from AFR. The other two are about $850-$900 per set.


Jody

I would go with the sportsman II heads.I have these on my camaro and to me these are great iron heads.They also give me tons of power.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mutant 68:
pdq67-Good choice.You seem to be up on the hole combo thing.

ksmith-If you have to keep your 600 then the Dart 180's or the Performer RPM heads would suit your motor better than the AFR'S.With 350 cubes and your current cams 224 intake duration at .050 you should look at heads that have an intake runner volume of no more than 180 cc.The exception to that rule is the AFR 190.Going larger than this will only hurt your low speed driveability.
No real need to go with a roller rocker with any head that is mentioned above.Also,Going with a RPM intake over the "NEW" Performer will only get you slightly over 10 HP.

[This message has been edited by mutant 68 (edited 11-24-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You now have got my full attention......I really am torn between the AFR 190 street and the Edelbrock RPM heads. The roller rockers are for top end, less friction, less weight, and about 30 HP for the Gold.

How much are the AFR 190 64cc aluminum heads and where do you buy them?

www.airflowresearch.com (http://www.airflowresearch.com) check out the chevy dyno section. If you want iron heads I vote for the Dart Iron Eagles.

The AFR190s are $1300 straight from AFR. They have 68cc chambers. They will mill the heads down for you for a little more.

------------------
1971 Corvette
383ci, 10:1, DFI, AFR190 heads, CompCams XE282 H-roller, 3000 stall, 3.70 gears

ksmith-Using 1.5 ratio roller rockers over a stock rocker will not get you 30HP.
The only way that will happen is if your stock rockers offer considerabily less lift than the 1.5 ratio advertised.Part of the HP increase clames by some people are because the aftermarket rocker offers a true ratio as compared to the factory,therby increasing the rocker ratio to the factory 1.5.From what I've herd most stock rockers offer more like a 1.38-1.43 ratio.Make no mistake about it you will see an increase in power,just not 3oHP.You can expect something more like 10, mabey 15.By using a 1.6 ratio rocker over a 1.5 ratio will increase your cams lift by .035 and duration by roughly 2 degrees.It will also open and close the valves faster than what the cam was designed for.Since the XE cam was designed for fast action I would hesitate on using a 1.6 rocker.At least call CompCams before you do!!!
The other part of there performance increase is due to there weight reduction on the valve train.This lets you rev a little higher and creats a very slight HP increase.Since you have a very mild hydraulic cam with only 224.050 duration you won't benifit that much simply because your motor won't spin high enough for it to be a benifit.With your motor I think a steel rocker like CompCams Magnum Roller Rocker or a stamped steel unit(without the roller tip) like the Crane's Die-Formed Steel unit would be a better choice.



[This message has been edited by mutant 68 (edited 11-25-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mutant 68:
ksmith-Using 1.5 ratio roller rockers over a stock rocker will not get you 30HP.
The only way that will happen is if your stock rockers offer considerabily less lift than the 1.5 ratio advertised.Part of the HP increase clames by some people are because the aftermarket rocker offers a true ratio as compared to the factory,therby increasing the rocker ratio to the factory 1.5.From what I've herd most stock rockers offer more like a 1.38-1.43 ratio.Make no mistake about it you will see an increase in power,just not 3oHP.You can expect something more like 10, mabey 15.By using a 1.6 ratio rocker over a 1.5 ratio will increase your cams lift by .035 and duration by roughly 2 degrees.It will also open and close the valves faster than what the cam was designed for.Since the XE cam was designed for fast action I would hesitate on using a 1.6 rocker.At least call CompCams before you do!!!
The other part of there performance increase is due to there weight reduction on the valve train.This lets you rev a little higher and creats a very slight HP increase.Since you have a very mild hydraulic cam with only 224.050 duration you won't benifit that much simply because your motor won't spin high enough for it to be a benifit.With your motor I think a steel rocker like CompCams Magnum Roller Rocker or a stamped steel unit(without the roller tip) like the Crane's Die-Formed Steel unit would be a better choice.

[This message has been edited by mutant 68 (edited 11-25-2000).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mutant 68,
I agree 30Hp may be high but the stock rockers from the factory on a low performance GM Target motor is the bottom of the line stock rocker. The needle bearing fulcrum lightweight 1.5 roller rockers will reduce 90% friction at all RPM's including increase top end by 500 or so RPMs. Thoughts?

Thanks again.....Ken

A very good site that may answer some questions, dyno results also. www.shelby.net/mgervin/chp.htm (http://www.shelby.net/mgervin/chp.htm)

I don't know how long ago Moto Tec Mag changed there address,but you can get to the carb selection info this way
http://www.motortecmag.com/art1d.htm

[This message has been edited by mutant 68 (edited 12-02-2000).]