we had a thread about the spill that was moved to "off topic". Please keep politics out of this thread, thanks.

NO POLITICS ALLOWED!
I had a thought about that oil coming out of that pipe. I'm far from an engineer so this may be way off base, but could they surround that oil
coming from out of that pipe with some kind of large air hoses blowing into the center of the spill? wouldn't that help keep the oil a little more "centered" and "together" as it is pushed up from the pressure. Obviously, the pressure from the hoses would have to be equal, and I'm not talking about the type of air hoses we use. It looks like they are capturing the oil at some point and sucking it up, but most of the oil is dispursed immediately after exiting the pipe. If someone wants to invent that in a hurry, just put my name on patten! (or maybe large propellers of some kind...)

I just thought something like a large funnel type thing connected to a large pipe/hose with some sort of pump/vacuum to a tanker :confused:

No engineer either :noway:

I just thought something like a large funnel type thing connected to a large pipe/hose with some sort of pump/vacuum to a tanker :confused:

No engineer either :noway:
I think that's what they are using but the oil is disbursed very widely before it even gets to the "funnel" or whatever it is. You could use the fans or air hoses to "steer the oil" into the funnel, or at least in it's direction.

I had no idea how large the leak was/is....just 10's of 1000's of gallons or more every day/week.

you all realize its at about 15000 psi!

you all realize its at about 15000 psi!
:eek: Should shoot straight up like a fountain :confused: :D

Where is McGuyver???

I'm no engineer, either, but why can't they take a larger diameter pipe and stick it down over the ruptured pipe. Granted it's 5000' down, but surely they can come up with enough pipe to reach the surface to collect/cap it.

I'm no engineer, either, but why can't they take a larger diameter pipe and stick it down over the ruptured pipe. Granted it's 5000' down, but surely they can come up with enough pipe to reach the surface to collect/cap it.I think part of the problem with all that is that some of the ice-cold seawater gets sucked in and turns to ice as it goes up the pipe, clogging it. I think that is why they are having to use the vents to allow some of it to escape. Seems to me if they had some shears that were strong enough to cut the pipe, they could have brought in some kind of giant "jaws" to crimp it shut, like a pair of giant pliers. It seems like this is one of the ways the blowout preventer was supposed to shut off the flow in the first place, with giant hydraulic rams. Couldn't they just pull our the existing blowout preventer and replace it with a functional one? After all, it had to get down there in the first place. We need Virgil to further explain why this is not an option. :)

If everything else fails, it seems like they could set off a series of explosive charges around the well to bury it and effectively shut it off until the relief well could be drilled.

Tom,
You are right about the hydrates. As to swapping BOPs, it is one of the first things I suggested, but it is a very high risk job, and I think the possible loss of life is one of the reasons they don't want to try. I would be willing to give it a go, even with only swapping the LMRP.
I'm still against the explosive charges, as at least with the BOPs you have something to connect to. If you blow it and it doesnt work, then you just have a hole gushing oil.

I have seen a copy of the trend sheets for the last 2 hours of the Horizon, and I can tell you this, as I have looked at these for 19 years now, the drill crew never had a chance. Everything I can see, the crew did everyting text book on well control. The biggest kick I have ever seen was 1100psi. There was a 5000psi spike in pressure in less than a minute and a half, before the transmission ended (read - explosion)
I don't want to turn this into anything political. What we need to concentrate on is getting it stopped, and getting the Gulf Coast cleaned up. Actually, any ideas are appreciated, as I believe there is a website to submit them. Again, I don't want this to turn into a political discussion, so if anyone has any questions on information that they think I might be able to help explain, please PM me, and I will do my best.

Tom,
You are right about the hydrates. As to swapping BOPs, it is one of the first things I suggested, but it is a very high risk job, and I think the possible loss of life is one of the reasons they don't want to try. I would be willing to give it a go, even with only swapping the LMRP.
I'm still against the explosive charges, as at least with the BOPs you have something to connect to. If you blow it and it doesnt work, then you just have a hole gushing oil.Thanks for your viewpoint, Virgil. Wouldn't swapping to a new BOP involve the use of remote robotic subs like they are using now? I guess I don't understand why there would be a greater risk to life. In regards to the explosion causing a hole that is seeping oil, that is essentially what we have now. I guess the risk here would be that it might flow at an even higher rate.

you all realize its at about 15000 psi!

Actually 2 feet of water is equal to 1 psi of air.It is more like 2500 psi per 1 mile of depth. I deal with overcoming water pressure using air pressure every day at my job as a way of keeping underwater telephone cables from getting water in them by keeping them pressurized with air.

The good news is that at this depth,even a free standing explosive without containment would become like a pipe bomb since the pressure would contain the expansion until peak pressure is acheaved.Since explosives dont require air to do their job,they can be used underwater.I say get some heavy explosive either far into the pipe underground,or bored into the ground in close proximity of the pipe well below the ocean floor and blow it up to collapse the while thing on itself. Since the flow is contained in a pipe all the way down to the bottom of the well,I think putting the explosive in the pipe would be most effective. How about a warhead abut 1500 feet below floor level inside the pipe?

so the idea of explosives would be to have the well "collapse" on itself way below the sea floor?.. and that would destroy all the man-made stuff down there that starts the whole process and causes the oil to begin rising? that makes sense to me.

so the idea of explosives would be to have the well "collapse" on itself way below the sea floor?.. And that would destroy all the man-made stuff down there that starts the whole process and causes the oil to begin rising? That makes sense to me.


x2

I guess I don't understand why there would be a greater risk to life. QUOTE]

To swap it out properly, the LMRP would be connected to riser back to the rig, bringing hydrocarbons to the rig, and most are landed without a divertor in place. If you could land out completely on your tensioners, it would be possible (hard to do at the weights used now a days) and have the divertor installed, though it would slow your time to stab over the bops.

[QUOTE=RichSchmidt;1436882]Actually 2 feet of water is equal to 1 psi of air.It is more like 2500 psi per 1 mile of depth. I deal with overcoming water pressure using air pressure every day at my job as a way of keeping underwater telephone cables from getting water in them by keeping them pressurized with air.

The good news is that at this depth,even a free standing explosive without containment would become like a pipe bomb since the pressure would contain the expansion until peak pressure is acheaved.Since explosives dont require air to do their job,they can be used underwater.I say get some heavy explosive either far into the pipe underground,or bored into the ground in close proximity of the pipe well below the ocean floor and blow it up to collapse the while thing on itself. Since the flow is contained in a pipe all the way down to the bottom of the well,I think putting the explosive in the pipe would be most effective. How about a warhead abut 1500 feet below floor level inside the pipe?

This is a rough way to figure it, and gets close. The hydrostatci pressure to the top of the BOPs (8.6 seawater x .052 x 5000 water depth) equals 2236psi. (more on this in a minute)

so the idea of explosives would be to have the well "collapse" on itself way below the sea floor?.. and that would destroy all the man-made stuff down there that starts the whole process and causes the oil to begin rising? that makes sense to me.

The key here is getting it to IMPLODE on itself, not to explode. If you severe the casing and detach the BOPs, then you have a gushing hole, where with the BOPs connected, you at least have something to attach to in attempts.

And if this is too political, or out of text, please delete it, but I would like to talk about why I think the top kill did not work. It goes in reference to the above hydrostatic formula.

The well was drill, I think (just woke up and still in my room, so going of memory here) with 14 ppg mud, to a depth of roughly 15000 ft. (again memory) That would put the bottom hole pressure at 10920 psi (mw x .052 x true VERTICLE depth) (In well control, prssure is always figured at he deepest point)

If they pumped 16 ppg mud into the BOPs for the top kill (I never heard of a weight, just using this as an example) the BOPs are say 50 feet tall, so 16 x .052 x 50 = 41 psi plus you have your water depth, so add the pressure of it, 41 + 2236 = 2277 psi.
If they would have lassoed the riser and pulled upright (we do this when we have to recover dropped BOPs) to 300 feet below the waterline (not sure how much of top was destroyed, or how bad it was kinked, again, just using for reference) we have 16 x .052 x 4700 = 3910 psi + 134=4044 psi (134 is the hydro of 300 ft of water (8.6 x .052 x 300) )

Not saying the top kill would not have worked, as we dont know from what depth the kick came from, but in my oilfield opinion, it didn't have a chance without attempting to stand the riser up as you need a column of mud pshing down. Again, this is just an attempt to explain the hydrostatic pressure, and not trying to get into politics. If this needs deleted please do.
Got to go get my day started.