Ok I am basically about to install a 383sbc mated with a 350 tranny in my 69 camaro i have Energy suspension motor mounts part number 3.1114G as i start lowering the engine down i begin to have some issues the transmission pan starts hitting the transmission crossmember http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/Smileys/default/doh.gif meaning its already as far as it can be but according to the engine itself i still NEED 1 inch more back to slip over the engine brackets, It sound confusing but basically according to the trasnmission and crossmember they need to go forward and the engine according to the motor and frame they need to go back.

Tranny--------><---------Engine

Now I decoded the car a long time ago it was originally a 6 cylinder car, when i bought it, it was all beat up but the seller put a 350sbc, now i disassembled the car completely and was planning on using some of the same parts like the motor mount brackets, which is where im at now i thought a everything would fit back in now im not using the same block that it came with but a 350 is a 350 correct me if im wrong, SOOO MY questions are

Do I need to modify anything To make the engine and transmission fit in the original frame?
Is the 6cylinder subframe the same As an 8 cylinder sub frame?
Or are the motor mount bracket which are the one bolted on the frame of the car wrong?
Or do i need to drill some extra holes in the frame to move the mounts forward in the frame seeing how i assume its a 6 cylinder frame?

please if u can help me out before i waste more money buying other stuff i dont need http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/Smileys/default/bow.gif

The subframes are the same.

1969 small block V-8 Camaro's have two different sets of frame mounts and engine mounts.

1 set is for the 307 and 327 engines. These are short and wide engine mounts like the ones you bought.

The 2nd set is for the 302 and 350 engines. These are the tall and narrow engine mounts.

http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii152/tjs69_photos/engine%20and%20frame%20mounts/EnergySuspensionEngineMounts.jpg

These are either 2 3/8 or 2 5/8" wide. Measure yours.

You need either new frame mounts or new engine mounts.

(Yes, I jumped the gun on the mounts... I thought you were saying, that it wouldn't fit on the mounts... MY bad.

Just remove the four bolts holding the transmission crossmember in, angle it, and pull it out. Then once your engine is on the mounts, support the rear of the trans and slip the crossmember back in. It could be in backwards which might the pad too far forward, I don't know. If you need a crossmember, I've got one you can have but it's ugly. Nothing some cleaning and paint wouldn't take car of though.

As Steiner said, take the transmission crossmember out before trying to install the engine and trans. Some of the subframes have more than a single pair of holes through which the trans crossmember can be bolted, and as noted it can also be reversed.

Confirm which engine frame stands (the parts that bolt to the subframe cradle) you have by checking out the different types shown in this link.

http://pozziracing.com/camaro_engine.htm

The L6 used different frame stands, and if those were used to mount the previous small block, that could be the problem.

You can also post photos of what you have so we may be able to help more. Host photos online at one of the free sites (a lot of us use Photobucket) then use the [IMG] coding pasted into your post here to have the photo appear.

Six-cyl frame stands are way different than V8.
As said, crossmember has three holes on the side, these three holes go on the drvr side when mounted.

Out of curiosity, why did they have to use 2 different mounts for the same engine block?

alan

My thoughts, were that GM built the car. Then they decided to change a couple of things, and that wouldn't work without changing something else !

Case in point :

A stock 327 has a 6 3/4" harmonic balancer. (built first ?)
A stock 350 or 302 has an 8" harmonic balancer.
The 8" balancer will not fit in the chassis where a 6 3/4" does ! (with out changing the frame mounts)

Another one is that all the V-8 engines will fit on the Big Block frame mounts. (which are also different.)

the motor mouunts i have measure 2 5/8 same as the motor frame brackets, now the motor frame brackets i have are the LOW PERF ENGINE FRAME BRACKETS the first one on the link ERIC posted now i was thinking i could of installed the tranny cross member the wrong way but does it really make that much of a difference, but i will post up pics at around 8 or 830 california time sorry but verly got of work and man im hungry but will keep you guys posted thanks for the help so far

The 2 5/8" wide Stock engine mounts are referred to as the "Low Performance" engine mounts... the 307/327 mounts.

Your Energy Suspension mounts are inter-locking type mounts. The stock ones are not.
the Energy Suspension mounts are also made of polyurethane which is stronger than the stock rubber ones.

If you've got an 8" balancer I think it could hit the sway bar with those mounts.....

Sorry for the delay but do you really think it will hit the sway bar dam :( if it doesnt rain it pours but imma try to load the pics any minute now

Cant post up pics i already uploaded them to photobucket but if someone please explain how to upload them to this web site,thanks

Yes, If you have an 8" balancer it will contact your sway bar. Here's the thing. If you have a larger than stock sway bar, as most of us do, it will contact the sway bar no matter which mounts you use. The solution ? Add a 1/4 plate under each sway bar mount to move the sway bar down, out of the way.

An 8" balancer will clear a "stock" sway bar if 302/350 frame mounts are used, but not a larger than stock one.

Simply "copy" the image link in Photobucket, and paste it in your post, here at camaros.net.

well here are the picks or just type in photobucket search lopezelam and click on the blue letter that say u want to look at my profile i was trying to take some really good pics so you can understand what i was talking about but here is the link or direct website which you can copy and paste http://s910.photobucket.com/home/lopezelam let me know of any issue,thanks

It looks to me like the transmission crossmember is in backwards but I can't really tell. The best thing to do is to pull it out and get something that you can prop up under the tailshaft, then drop the engine on the frame stands and see how it looks.

Shown in the trans & xmember picture, xmember is in correctly, but, trans mount should come forward on extension housing to the bolts shown just behind the pan. You see one bolt hole, the pass side.

To share the photos here, you just CTRL-C the IMG coding (last of the four share options under each photo in Album view or to the left of the photo when you click on it and it opens as it's own image on the page.

http://i910.photobucket.com/albums/ac303/lopezelam/camaro004.jpg

That is not a stock, unmodified transmission crossmember. Not sure why it has been modified, but that is likely why you are having trouble. The center may be original, and it looks like it may be backwards (back side forward), but the outer arms are missing the stamped reinforcing bead, and a stock cross does not have a welded seam in the middle of it like that one.

Some pics of stock crossmembers in this thread: http://www.camaros.net/forums/showthread.php?t=151938&highlight=crossmember+picture

The other way you can tell something is up with the trans crossmember is that in 1st gens with a TH350, the trans pan sits back so tight against the front of the cross that the row of trans pan bolts are almost completely covered (very hard to get a wrench on).

Good point, Eric, I missed the weld showing and forgot to add about the inaccessibilty of rear pan bolts..............part of being over 40.........

You mean it gets worse (I am at 40 now...) ;)

One other thing, because it has been a long time since I have been under a TH350 (the 68 had one, but that has been gone for 6 years now); isn't that mounting flange on the trans, behind the pan and above the crossmember in the pic above, where the trans mount bolts? Or is there more than one set of trans mount flanges on some TH350s?

Only one set of mounting holes on a THM350 regardless of tailshaft housing length. But I think he's installing a TKO amnual trans, so there may be more than one mounting place on the trans, but I don't think so.

What's worse is the Wife starts picking on you and in your defense, ask her when was the last time you remembered/forgot?

Ev, you're worse than you thought :) the pic I linked is of the OPs setup, which in Post 1 and the pic is a TH350.

And yeah, a TKO can have multiple mount flanges; mine has at least two that I remember.

So in conclusion I should REMOVE the transmission crossmember and install the engine without it then after i bolted it down reinstall the crossmember and see how it fits right. Question though which way is the correct way the crossmember should be going, But also have you guys noticed the engine is about an INCH away from the firewall at this point i think that if i shove it even further back It will hit the firewall plus not SLIDE into the frame mounts, thanks for the advice so far if you guys reply tonight imma work on the car on saturday and post up results,thanks again

Another thing that i forgot to mention I went to go and check the crossmember is there a possibility that this X-member can be from a nova, because i notice that the bead on mine ends right when it hits the curb and the one YOU guys provided in the link KEEP GOING about 2 inches after the curb, any ideas man the PLOT KEEP THICKENING:cool: LOL but I wanna have the engine Installed this weekend

Anybody have some clearer pics of a not rusted Crossmember just to verify some things when i uninstall mine,thanks

Yes, remove it. Use a floor jack under the tailshaft so you can hold it up and roll it at the same time. You do not need to bolt the engine in, it can just sit on the mounts as long as you keep the trans supported. You'll have to jack the trans end up some to get the crossmember back in anyway. I don't see a transmission mount. You may want to go ahead and bolt that on so when the crossmember is back in your engine doesn't lean back and crack the distributor cap.

The engine looks close to the firewall to me because the engine is leaning back further than it will be when it is installed. If you lift the rear of the trans so the engine is at the correct angle going by the mounts you should see it pull away from the firewall.

Just eyeballing the picture it looks to me like the frame mounts are in the correct position.

thanks for the heads up will do that this weekend ill keep you posted on what happends by the way what do you think about what i said about the crossmember being off a nova seeing how the bead doesnt go as far as an original one would,thanks:thumbsup:

Nice Eric Kammerer. I think your photos are great. I will try to install that in my car. :D:thumbsup: