I have a 69 camaro that should be making around 400hp/400ft/lbs of torque.This is going to be pretty much a daily driver for the most part. There are plenty of cars out there with more HP/TQ so I'd like to make my car hook off the line as best I can with street tires. I'm not sure what the biggest radial you can run stock is for a 69,around 275 maybe?I am going to have an 8.5" 10 bolt built for it soon, w/ 3.73 gears. I'd really like to get this thing to hook well and show a few people I know that it is all about how much power you get to the ground.I'm sure some guys on here have some setups that are working well for them.Any info that I didn't mention and that will help,just let me know.I greatly appreciate your insight and input.Thanks

traction bars and subframe connectors.
buy the bolt in subframe connectors.....i have them and they work great. i welded the front part....no big deal.
get some M/T street and strip tires too.

I agree with Z/27 on his comments.You can install a set of Moroso front springs and the 3 way adjustable Competition Engineering front shocks,Ive set mine on the 90-10 setting with no problem.This will lift the front up good on hard take offs and thus more weight for better traction.

------------------
69 Camaro SS 350 4 speed
71 Nova

I am going to get some bolt in subframe connectors and have them welded in,I have the weld in type,but I don't want to cut up the bottom of the car.As for traction bars,any suggestion on by who? Or should I save the $$$ and buy Cal Tracs ?? I've heard good things about them.

cal tracs are great, i have them on my 68', and they really make the suspension work. agree on the sub connectors also. and my buddy's wife has a 69 w/ 28 10.50 micky thompson sportsman pros, and they fit but don't leave a heck of a lot of room. her car actually has a 454, no sub connectors, or traction bars, and you can make it hook real well if you work for it a little. on top of everything suspension related, though, the most important thing is lots of practice, and a feel for the car. good luck!

the South Side Machine Lift Bars work pretty well. I couldn't say whether they work better than Cal Tracs or not though. I've never used those.

Imho,,, cheap "slapper bars" work just fine unless you just want SOTA traction control devices...

I think they are good up to 10.5 seconds if set up right!! pdq67

Build the right set of rear springs and you wont need traction bars.

That and a good set of sub frame connectors. Why re-invent the wheel by bolting on so many other parts....so many parts = so much money.

Cal Tracs work great, i've seen them in action plenty of times, but unless you're aiming at 10's and quicker a standard traction slapper bar works fine.
One of the local Bracket racers runs a mono-leaf slapper bar setup with a BBC 68' Camaro and has a best ET of 9.98 on 28x9" Hoosier Slicks.

I found a set of Lakewood traction bars lying around in the garage,are these what you guys are referring to?The bars are just there,I'm not sure if any other necessary hardware is needed to be able to install them?Are they easy to install?I guess I could bolt them on and see what they do. I have little experience with this stuff.The subframes should help for sure.By the way,I have CE 3 way adjustable front and rear shocks,and moroso front and rear trick coils,they are new,but not installed.I think I might sell them because I think the street manners would be poor for a daily driver.

You cant. All the traction devices in the world will not help unless you get some sticky rubber to put it all in motion. Sure traction devices MAY help prevent some wheel hop but untill you get a soft compound tire that will stick you will not get proper weight transfer.


Traction causes weight transfer which causes more traction. You have to start some were.

Chicane,

I think I have all of $10, (1970 money), in my homemade slapper bars!!

He, He!! pdq67

luke
the traction bars are simple to put on.
i built some that are the right length for about 15.00.......but i'm a welder too.
thats the only thing some one told me was to make sure the bar rubber comes right up under the front spring perch, that way theres less flex in the spring.

------------------
69 Camaro RS/SS 350.
GM 2.02 angle plug heads.
223 dur/480 lift hyd cam.
69 z/28 alum high rise.
69 z/28 780 vac sec holly carb.
4 bolt mains,steel crank,forged flat top pistons.
Turbo 350 2800 stall with shift kit.
3:73 12 bolt posi.
functional cowl induction & ZL2 hood

If you're talking about hooking up on the street good luck. When you are producing alot of power you just can't get it to hook on the street, but will hook well at the track. I've got a '68 Camaro that I tubbed out , caged and it's a radical "street" monster. It's got a Dana 60 with 4:11 posi, coilovers, ladder bar suspension, 90/10 springs up front but will not hook on the street. I even changed my rubber to sportman pros 31x18.5x15, they're a slick compound but even aired down will not hook. The motor is a 350 bored .040, balanced & blueprinted, J&E blower pistons, forged "H" beam rods, Eagle crank, block has been clearenced for rods and "O" ringed, Brodix track 1 heads, Roller cam, lifters, rockers, 8-71 blower with two 700cfm Holleys. This combo should put the car in the high 9's if I change the top pulley to about 3% underdriven. But even with slicks it will not hook on asphalt or fresh concrete. Anyone who says they can is shooting B.S. Just my opinion.

I figure I will bolt on the Lakewood traction bars.Should I run my CE 3 way adjustable shocks in the front and rear? If so what setting do you guys recommend.I'm hesitant to put in the moroso trick coil springs,I think it might make for too poor of street manners for a daily driver.Any opinions on that?I'm hoping that with those bars,subframe connectors and shocks that there will be a noticeable difference.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by roger69:
You cant. All the traction devices in the world will not help unless you get some sticky rubber to put it all in motion. Sure traction devices MAY help prevent some wheel hop but untill you get a soft compound tire that will stick you will not get proper weight transfer.


Traction causes weight transfer which causes more traction. You have to start some were. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You obviously hav'nt seen Terry Pennington's 69 Camaro click off 11.69@120 on F70-14 polyglas tires. No slapper bars and all throttle and no bottle! Check out the current issue of Hot Rod. Was also in last months issue featured in the F.A.S.T race in Norwalk. Of course if you are a subscriber, you wont see it cause you get Hot Rod Lite, only the newstand issue covered it.
Peter

Wasnt that at a track though? The track and the street are COMPLETELY different. Ive managed to get 1.9 60fts at the track on Big-O generic street tires and 3.42 gears. There's no way I could get anywhere near that on the street.....

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by COPO PETE:
Originally posted by roger69:
You cant. All the traction devices in the world will not help unless you get some sticky rubber to put it all in motion. Sure traction devices MAY help prevent some wheel hop but untill you get a soft compound tire that will stick you will not get proper weight transfer.


Traction causes weight transfer which causes more traction. You have to start some were. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You obviously hav'nt seen Terry Pennington's 69 Camaro click off 11.69@120 on F70-14 polyglas tires. No slapper bars and all throttle and no bottle! Check out the current issue of Hot Rod. Was also in last months issue featured in the F.A.S.T race in Norwalk. Of course if you are a subscriber, you wont see it cause you get Hot Rod Lite, only the newstand issue covered it.
Peter



11.69@120? Indicates a lack of traction. 120 mph with traction will get you low 11's, like this 350 Camaro:
H/S 11.11 119.68 04/06/02 Dennis Petras - Bloomsbury, NJ '69 Chevy Camaro Delmar, DE

------------------
1967 Nova coupe daily driver
406, 10:1, 224° cam, Q-jet, 700R4, 3465# w/driver
11.75 @ 117 thru the mufflers
18 mpg on the road

I'm more then certain that Terry's car is alot more involved then Luke805 Wants to get into to.
Besides the fact that its at the track, Terry's never going to share HOW he goes about doing that, now is he?
If you ask Warren Johnson what he uses for a cam in his Pro Stock will he tell you?
Same idea stands.

The best way to get traction on the street would be to teach yourself how to feather the gas pedal and get progressively more into it until you know you can floor it without breaking them loose.

The spring controls most of this....

depending on how much you want to spend, i have a 69 with 600 hp bb with a landam single leaf spring,cal traks,welded in frame connectors,29x12.5 hoosiers,4:11 gears.hooks pretty good on street.not sure how its going to work after the 8-71 blower goes on next month.jeff

------------------
69z 509 merlin 600 hp/620 torque pro street

I am thinking I will start with subframe connectors,shocks,and a decent size tire,my rear end should be going in fairly soon,I'll have to see how it does.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by roger69:
You cant. All the traction devices in the world will not help unless you get some sticky rubber to put it all in motion. Sure traction devices MAY help prevent some wheel hop but untill you get a soft compound tire that will stick you will not get proper weight transfer.


Traction causes weight transfer which causes more traction. You have to start some were. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

yes you can! what you say is basically true, you will never hook as good as you can at the track, but as any street racer knows, (yes i USED to street race, so go ahead, hiss, boo, etc, but more than half of you guys that are true motorheads will admit to it too) you can hook up on the street, by learning a little throttle control, and using a good sticky dot drag tire. a buddy of mine who was prob. the best street racer around, would routinely yank and carry the tires in his big block 67 chevelle, w/ a 12.50 et street. it would run 9s at the track, and of course it couldn't see those #s on the street, but it still hooked killer. another buddy had a 70 camaro that would yank the hides on the street also, with a pretty big tire, but still... i personally raced a guy w/ a blown 69 camaro and 15" tires w/ my friends roller cammed 454 and 28 10.50 sportsmans pro's,(runs 11.50s) and nothing but stock multi leafs, yes on the street, i know, http://www.camaros.net/forum/rolleyes.gif, and i smoked him off the line, and won the race because of it. so i guess you could say some POEPLE can't hook up on the street http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

Sounds like I should get a large tire on my car.I don't like the look of the back all jacked up to clear big tires.I want my car to have that pro street type look in the rear with the tires tucked inside the fender wells.Is there a special offset of rim I can run to clear big tires with them inside the fenders?My Camaro got hit recently so my I need 1 new back rim anyways,so if there is an offset that will get me this,I will change them probably.If any of you know I'd appreciate it.

Street exibition of speed is illegal. It should also be illegal to have solid lines at stop lights that cause tire slippage and poor take-off. There's also the added oils spredding around where cars wait at lights. Rains do get rid of some of the oils but during a slight drizzle the oil effect is amplified. Watch the material difference of concrete and asphalt for launch rpm in general. Big tires and stay away from those lines while applying the right presures and things should be the around the best you could expect. Worse yet while reading about the ABS on an LSC of mine I saw Lincoln added a traction loss feature to some cars that senses if your tires are spinning on take off so the ABS applies it's pulsing braking to the rear rotors. Sick but true. Big tires and that system might help. I hate ABS by the way. Good luck making yourself happy.

My two bits, after cruising around for the weekend with little or no hook is that all the tire and suspension in the world will not help you to hook off the line (on the street) like you do at the track without "help".

A couple of things to consider about the track...it is clean, you can air your tires to the ideal pressure for "hook" (which is rarely the ideal pressure for "driving"), and the nice people that run the tracks spray tons of VHT all over their nice, clean concrete.

Now, since it seems unlikely that the streets will be ideally clean or generously coated in VHT, you might consider soaking or painting your tires with VHT to soften them up. Generally this works for a day or two and gets expensive but it works if your tires are going away.

Short of that, I have to agree with the restraint method of launching. If I left at 2K and quarter throttle, I could ease through the gears and still do what had to be done. If I flashed the convertor I just boiled the tires and had to work alot harder to get the job done. If I left on the brake (which I do not suggest, but it scares the crap out of the geezers beside you) there was nobody home - lots of noise but no push.

Just my two bits and for the record, I do not suggest that you try any of this yourself.

Adivanman
http://www.adivanman.com

What are geezers?

Looks like the guys pretty much covered this, but I will add my $.02. Truely hooking on the street is not going to happen. You didn't say weather or not you are talking about on the street or on the track, you just said street tires. If you are talking everyday radials, you can forget it. Drag radials work pretty good. I personally prefer bias ply tires (non steel belted). With radials you can only run them so low (tire pressure) before you actually hurt traction and the side walls are way to hard/stiff. Sub frame connectors and traction bars will do wonders for helping you get the power to the ground, but you will still need a decent tire. As mentioned before "trick" rear springs will help as well and that is what a traction bar basically does, in a leaf spring (any car actually) car you have to control the rear end (stop it from twisting/wrapping), this can be done several ways. The cheapest and easiest is slapper bars, but they are only good to a point (adjustability is limited). What is your goal for the car? This will make a huge diffence on your approach. If you are hoping for 14 second ET's then you can get away with more than, if you are shooting for 10's. All the above advice is good and basically saying the same thing. One last thing, save the racing for the track please. Yes some of us have played around on the street, but that doesn't make it right.

Royce

Merriam-Webster's Collegiate Dictionary, 10th edition, concurs with Geezer.com that geezer derives from the Middle English guiser, "one in disguise." The dictionary defines the word as follows: "a queer, odd or eccentric person." The Oxford English Dictionary says, "a term of derision applied to elderly persons." It goes on, "a mummer; and hence any grotesque or queer character."

From this definition I would say he meant anyone driving a Ford....

Onovakind67,I think he was referring to old people when he said geezers. My goals for my car are to run in the 12's at the track on slicks.Unfortunately the closest track is hours away,so I'd just like to make my car perform well on the street,and have good daily driving manners. I understand that my car will never hook on the street like it would at the track,I just would like to make improvements to it.

Luke you are right on track then. I wouldn't bother with the drag front springs. Not great for handling and not needed to get into the 12's. The subframe connectors and traction bars should be about all you need. If you plan on bolting on slicks at the track you will be set as long as you have the power to run the number 12's will be no problem as far as hooking goes.


Royce

never mind http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif

[This message has been edited by Eric68 (edited 12-02-2002).]

This is probably a dumb question,but if my car currently has leafs in the back,would I still run rear coils springs???Or do these substitute for one another?

One other thing,are those Moroso front and rear trick coils gonna make a big difference? There is some kid who I plan on beating once I get my combo dialed in,and I figure if they don't help much I'll sell em to him.What do you guys think?If they'd help him a lot,I'll just stick to with trying to sell em elsewhere.I can't really stand the kid,he thinks his car runs high 12's http://www.camaros.net/forum/rolleyes.gif,more like high 14's.

1.69 60' on 275/60-15 radials!

'80 Camaro RS - 3600# with driver
Moroso front springs, Lakewood 90/10 shocks Energy Susp. poly control arm bushings
No front sway bar
CE solid subframe bushings
CE subframe connectors - bolt-in type
SSM lift bars, CE 3 way rear shocks (set XF)

Launch from idle with 3500 stall and 3.73s

Bill,
Are you talking about standard radials? Not drag radials? If so you have one VERY well prepped track (read sticky) or a suspension that works like magic. What kind of air pressure are you running in those radials?

Royce

Street legal Nitto 555R with 17 lbs.
Car hooks so hard the ashtray and glovebox door fly open. http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

ahhh Nitto's, yes those work very well. I wouldn't consider those everyday run of the mill radials. Those are good tires though, I know several people that run those. I just prefer bias ply tires (McCrearys) because they are lighter and can be run with lower air pressure. The draw back is they get flats easier. I think 1.6X or maybe high 1.5X's 60fts, are the limit for them on my car though. going to try full slicks.

Royce

Yeah, those nitto DR's are an awesome tire! I run em' on my car and they dead hook...Don't run more than 24 psi in em' though, the center's will be gone in 1000 miles! Only run 24 psi all the time and air em' down at the track.
Donnie

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CamaroNOTcamero:
I'm more then certain that Terry's car is alot more involved then Luke805 Wants to get into to.
Besides the fact that its at the track, Terry's never going to share HOW he goes about doing that, now is he?
If you ask Warren Johnson what he uses for a cam in his Pro Stock will he tell you?
Same idea stands.

The best way to get traction on the street would be to teach yourself how to feather the gas pedal and get progressively more into it until you know you can floor it without breaking them loose.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
You will never know till you ask and my
best 60ft is 182 on g-70 ploys and with slicks it was a 171 at bristol tenn as long as you guy's donot drive mopars or buicks. I'll help you if I can..


TERRY
------------------


[This message has been edited by 69 ZL1 (edited 12-04-2002).]

Wow, thats pretty amazing to see the man himself on here.
Well i'm as interested as any of the others in how you do it.
Do you take out alot of timing?
What effected how well it hooks?
Is your pinion angle set to the stock angle or 4-5 degree's down?
What Leaf Springs are you using? Stock?
What shocks are you using?

More importantly, How is your front suspension set up?
I'm interested becuase any good tips that help a stock 69' with poly glass tires hook will also help a 67' Camaro that will be running on Hoosier Slicks.

Thanks Terry, it's nice to know that your as down to earth as any of the regulars on here http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

[This message has been edited by CamaroNOTcamero (edited 12-04-2002).]

I too am impressed by the presence of 69ZL1, aka Terry.

Congrats to you, man. Very nice car!!

Mr GS Buick does seem to be a good competitor, it just makes second place work that much harder.

Educate me, what class is this? Rules?

------------------
Everett "OBJECTS IN THE MIRROR APPEAR QUICKLY UPON RAPID DECELERATION"

not to be a pessimist, but if we are talking about actual streets, not race tracks, then forget about springs, shocks, subs, all of those combined may, and I emphasize may take .1 secs off your 60 ft.

my advice for hooking on the "street" is to get a pair of the nitto street drs and practice, practice, practice and you might get close to a 2.0 sec 60 ft.

if anybody has g-tech or tazzo numbers to prove otherwise, then I sincerely apologize and will stfu http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

I'm interested in hearing what Terry has to say about Hooking up Poly Glass tires, if you'd like me to start a new post i will.

After, I get the kids in bed I should have some time to talk a little bit..


THANKS TERRY

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 69 ZL1:


After, I get the kids in bed I should have some time to talk a little bit..


THANKS TERRY <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
...just make sure you don't get your wife in bed or we will be waiting all night!!!! http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif
Peter

we're waiting in suspense http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif
Thanks again terry,
I'll warn you, you're going to be bombarded with questions from myself (the others also i would guess).

Well, let me start by saying I am NOT the man of anything.
I have had a lot of help from a lot of people along the way and copo pete is one of them, and I cannot thank all the people enough FOR ALL THER HELP ALONG THE WAY but I have not really done anything YET as far as the events go just have been the fastest or the 2nd fastest.NOT WON THE DARN THING YET.
My camaro has always been let down by the driver NEVER THE CAR LETTING THE DRIVER DOWN I HOPE TO CHANGE THAT NEXT YEAR..
As far as being in hot rod that was very cool but it will never go to my head like I said before I am nobody now lets talk.

1.You need enough power to 60' at a good track weather you on slicks or polys on your road in front of your house you will never hook on polys...
2.front suspension ft konis 90/10 50/50 rear springs I weighed the front and rear and sent that to landrunm if you dont need the ft sway bar trash it, if you want to keep it try geting a 3/4 plumbing pipe heat it red hot and slide it though your bushings control arm bumpers cut them down or take them off there are some thing you can do with steering parts I am not really going to get into that there are some people who really love to here it all but I need to keep some things to my self I hope you guy's understand you never know who is reading this there is another chevy guy who cant stand me and wants to blow my doors off or try to kick my a$$...`
3.rear springs have them rear-arched in front of the tire stock ones are arched for carring things in the trunk not for racing under load they will do all kinds of things MAKE SURE THAT YOU HAVE ENOUGH SHOCK TRAVEL.
FRONT AND REAR THERE IS MORE BUT MY WIFE IS CALLING ME HOWS THAT PETE..


THANK YOU GUY'S FOR YOUR TIME ANYTIME
I CAN HELP YOU LET ME KNOW
TERRY

Terry,
Care if i shoot you an e-mail, i'd like to hear the details (unless there are certain very specific things that the public must not know (i'll just start calling you Jeg Couglin http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CamaroNOTcamero:
Terry,
Care if i shoot you an e-mail, i'd like to hear the details (unless there are certain very specific things that the public must not know (i'll just start calling you Jeg Couglin http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
BE HAPPY TO TALK TO YOU SEND ME AN E-MAIL.

[This message has been edited by 69 ZL1 (edited 12-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by 69 ZL1 (edited 12-05-2002).]

Check your mail,
Thanks!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Everett#2390:
I too am impressed by the presence of 69ZL1, aka Terry.

Congrats to you, man. Very nice car!!

Mr GS Buick does seem to be a good competitor, it just makes second place work that much harder.

Educate me, what class is this? Rules?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am very sorry that it has taken me this long to get back to you, the web site for the F.A.S.T. RACE RULES IS www.geocities.com/fadrags/ (http://www.geocities.com/fadrags/) any questions please e-mail me again sorry. ALL YOU GUYS SHOULD COME WATCH A RACE OR RACE,IT IS A LOT OF FUN, AND THERE ARE A LOT OF GOOD PEOPLE THERE....

THANKS TERRY......



[This message has been edited by 69 ZL1 (edited 12-11-2002).]