Thinking about going the stroker route and building a torque motor with a max of 6000rpm.
Here is what I came up with..

406
10.5 comp ratio
282 extreme energy solid or 274 extreme hyd
AFR 195's
750 Holley
1 5/8 Headman elite series
RPM air gap intake
profrm hei
2.5 dual 40 series delta's
Dr gas x pipe
1.52 comp rollers
3.55 gears

Trans either my 700r4 or th400 and gear vendors overdrive or Th200r4???

I am looking for high 11's and be very street freindly. Can this combo do it??

Originally posted by 6D9:

I am looking for high 11's and be very street freindly. Well i`m sorry to say "very" street friendly and 11`s don`t really mix too well.

You`ll have to make a choice between 11`s...or very street friendly

[ 07-29-2003, 07:26 PM: Message edited by: BigRed-L72 ]

ya, what he said ^. 10.5 cr and a 274 sounds like problems as well.

Well hold on there now guys, it can be done. My car is street friendly, tho it is no daily driver but could be in anoher application. Better be ready to buy some expensive gas!

Originally posted by 69RS/SS350:
no daily driver but could be in anoher application. expensive gas! 11.3:1 compression, solid roller.

Your ENGINE isn't the "one size fits all" of engines dude, it doesnt work for EVERYONE who wants an engine.
The guy wants a daily driver....

Oh, sorry, I guess I missed the "daily driver" part. Or maybe you did.

Originally posted by 6D9:
very street freindly.AKA daily driver, or driven often enough that a SOLID ROLLER wont fit the bill.
Hot street, drag race, and i'd agree with you that your motor would be applicable, but IMO not in this case.

I don't think it's all that bad of a combo to attain his goals. I've never dealt with a 282 Solid myself, but in a 406 it is pretty well matched as a midrange cam for a 406 according to DDyno.

Through Mufflers w/ a Single Plane
It says 389lb. ft. @ 2500rpm
466hp @ 5500rpm

The dual plane picked up 30ft lbs but lost 40 hp at the corresponding rpms. You picked cams that fit the bill rpm-wise...both stopped huffing at 6g's.

Call me graemlins/clonk.gif but that seems like enough power if the car is light enough (and/or sticky enough).

6D9's definition of "street friendly" is obviously a 282Solid or the XE274, so I think that's what you guys should run with.

Maybe instead of bashing the cam and automatically saying "no way," give input on how the cam will react in the car. I think it would be a whole lot more beneficial to everyone. Otherwise, it does seem like the person who is asking for information is just getting shrugged off. It's just what I see.

I hate to be a computer fiend, but they have been proven to be pretty accurate.
http://smokemup.com/auto_math/hp_mph.php

I plugged in
3600lbs (that's pretty heavy)
115mph
20% drivetrain loss (reasonable estimate)

And got 464hp, right where the combo is that you had above. Seems to me like enough mph to be in the 11's smile.gif .

Your combo looks good and would put you in the 12s and maybe the low 12s but may not be "very street friendly", assuming you can launch well.
The AFR heads are great. If you want to get into the 11s, you need to make sure you have a very good launch, good tires, maybe a lower rearend gears, hopefully all without changing your cam.

It seems that everyone has their own definition of street friendly so your tolerance level is probably a lot different from mine. I have a 4 speed with a 4.11 rearend, a solid roller and it's street friendly to me, since it's not my daily driver.
Good luck
Ken
1.69 60 ft
11.55 et

I don't think you should have a lot of problems running high 11's with a reasonably friendly 406, which of course is a stock stroke motor. My 406 is in a 3475# daily driver, gets 16 mpg, tows trailers and has run 11.75@117
1. A hydraulic roller cam will make a big difference. I run a Comp 280HR based on some dyno tests I came across at the AFR homepage. I picked up 4 tenths going from a hydraulic cammed 383 to a HR cammed 406, even with a shorter duration.
2. Definitely gear for performance and use an overdrive tranny. I run 4.10 gears and a 26" tire behind a 700R4. Final drive in OD is 2.87.
3. Make well informed choices about your converter. The ability to execute full throttle lockups will gain you a couple of tenths, and the right stall speed for your converter is paramount.
4. Don't apologize for traction at the track. Use the best tires and suspension you can, traction equals e.t. You'll need frame connectors and a roll cage, too.
5. Use a cold air induction system - mine was worth 1.5 tenths.
6. Spend some time with your exhaust system. I find that a 1-5/8" primary works very well with a 2-1/2" collector in the 4000-5500 range. This is where you spend the majority of your time in a quarter mile. I also run a Dr. Gas XCO and turbo mufflers with full tailpipes.

I am running a fairly similar setup in my 69, except for the mistakes I ran with, it did well and was very street friendly. I ran my car with 3.08 10-bolt, no posi, and a slippery 3000 B&M stall converter, on a hot pomona day and some M/T ET street tires, I ran a very pothetic 12.8 at 108MPH barely getting into third gear at the end of the track though. But my launch was no better than my toyota tercel I had for my daily driver.

I was (and I say was because I overheated the engine and am rebuilding it right now) running a 282 solid elgin cam, the compression was/is over 11:1, Dart II 2.02/1.6 heads with some minor smoothing done inside, 930 Holley, 1 5/8 hooker headers, victor jr intake, MSD ign, at that run I had 2.5 exh with flotech mufflers, (I have 3" now and summit mufflers), I had an h-pipe on it then (have an X pipe now), I think it has 1.6 CC roller rocker, on a built th350.

The last run I made with the new stuff on it was on an 1/8 mile track. On my BFG's I ran 8.0 sec at 88 MPH, I wasn't even in the power in second gear at the end of the track. I don't know what that would be in the 1/4, but it definitely woke up when I put the bigger pipes on it. Traction was a HUGE issue.


The only thing I'll stress, and if you read above you'll know why, is keep that thing cool. My 406 did not like it when traffic slowed up and it got hot one too many times. I am not going to let that happen again.

The only reason I wouldn't consider this motor streetable was the noise and that was all my fault since I did not have tailpipes, it was a strait dump from the mufflers, it sounded real cool though. I was able to run 91 oct and it never fussed about that. It ran for 2 years, then i started to neglect it and then it went bad on me. So pay attention to your motor also. Keep her happy! I am building the same set up but with better rings, and maybe some more porting to the heads. I am putting a T-10 four speed in it with 3.55 in the 12-bolt I bought. Between all those changes, it was estimated that it will run in the mid 11's no problem, if I can hook it up. We'll see... :D

Thanks guys for the replys. As for street freindly I ment a weekend warrior capable of some
hot rod powers tours if I wanted to go! I saw the motor the CHP built a while back "budget 406" and was way impressed..425hp/525 torque. Peak power was at 5100 rpm . The cam was a Lunati with 230 at .050. That was with stock Vortec heads. I figured with my AFR's a solid 450hp and 500+ torue would be no problem! I am undecided between the 383 and the 406.

Weekend warrior, not a daily driver? :confused:

I never said I wanted a dailly driver out of it. Just something that could be driven anywhere at anytime!

Here's a "can be daily driver" 406 combo that can run high 11s in a 3500lbs (w/out dr.) car.
406
10:1
HP950
1" open spacer
RPM intake
195 AFRs
Comp hyd. 224/230
1 3/4" dyno headers
Dynoed at 440hp@5300 & 500tq@4000

In my friends all steel 70 Chevelle, (3600+lbs car) with a TH350, 2200 stall, 373s - it ran 12.0s@111mph.
This is with a wimpy 2 1/2" system. We will get the car in the 11s. Now in a lighter car, this could go high
11s easy, the mph is there. This engine pulls 19in of vac. and has an almost smooth idle - could be a nice
daily driver. Now add a hyd. roller cam, a looser stall, in a lighter car and it could run mid 11s easy. :D
So it CAN be done.

I have a 282S along with Trick Flow heads, Performer RPM intake and a 3310 Holley. I think that this is a great compromise between speed and streetability. I also have 3.42 gears and a self built Autogear M22. I drive this car to work 2-3 times a week during the summer and it wouldn't bother me a bit to drive it daily. It idles nicely at 800 RPM, makes sufficient vacuum for power brakes, and it makes plenty of low end grunt and makes power all the way up to 6,000 RPM. I currently have 1 5/8" Dynomax headers dumping into a 2" exhaust (that has way more 90 bends than it needs) with el cheapo turbo mufflers. My best Et so far was a very traction limited 13.20 at 109mph. I think my 60 foot time on that run was 2.3 or 2.4 seconds. I know the ET sucks and it isn't anywhere close to what you want to run, but the mph indicates that the power is there to get into the mid to low 12's. I think that a good exhaust system (anything would be better than the 2" that I have now) and some traction will get me up to 111 to 112 mph and hopefully in the low 12's and maybe high 11's.

Like I said before, this combo offers great driveability and I have driven it on 400 mile trips and I have sat in traffic without overheating in 90 degree heat. I also get about 16mpg on the highway, if I'm good. If I stay in the gas alot, all bets are off.

Well then, you can build your car just like Little Red in the signature below.
It seems like it would fit your needs/wants and even though it doesn`t have an OD trans the 3.23 gears allow it to cruise nicely.

Personally I think this combo can run some 11.30`s maybe even 11.20`s once we sort things out.
The MPH is there, all we need to do is get to work graemlins/clonk.gif

I like your combo, it will be very streetable. Daily driver streetable IMO. With slicks, a good converter and exhaust, and a good tune it'll hit 11's.

Pump gas with the 274 might be borderline, should be no problem with the 282, that being my 1st choice for your combo.

I run the XE274 in my daily driver, no issues. Just noisy.

Lonnie

IMO XS282s = sorta street friendly, max power and rougher idle, your best shot at high 11's; XE274 = very street friendly, daily driver, probably mid-low 12's. Cam choice IMO depends on how far you drive to work. LOL

I agree you may want to drop the CR half a point if you go with the smaller cam. Also 1-3/4" headers will not hurt your streetability and will give you a little more punch up top with a 406.

Hey Big Red
I may have asked before, but... whats the combo on your 406, because the mph is
impressive! Is it in your camaro or the biscayne? whats the weight? how much stall?
what exhaust? - my next sb will be a 406, but I guess first I need to get my 383 going graemlins/clonk.gif

Hows your buddy's 534 camaro? anything new with it? did you guys swap heads?

67RS502..The 406 is in a 78 camaro, it`s somewhat on the heavy side as the only weight reduction has been removing a front bar from under the bumper and the glass hood .
We`er going to weigh it after we put the roll bar in which we have.
The car has only made something like 4-5 passes lots of street miles but no real track time.

Combo: BG 850 annular Sports Claw
Air Gap dual plane
Dart Pro 1`s(200)
K/B pistons 6.0 rods 10.25-1
Ultradyne Hyd roller with Crane solid roller lifters lashed .0015-.002 (cold)
1-3/4" Hedman`s into 3.0" DynoMax`s

The converter is a 9.5" Torco 3150, flashes to about 4000 rpm.
$20.00 traction bars, factory 5 leaf`s(all heading for the dumpster BTW)

The 534" camaro was having some traction problems.
The car was turning the Mickey T`s and the 60 Fts weren`t where I thought they should be, so we got some new slicks coming.
Since our last chat...Hmmmmm..well I think all we did since then was add an X-pipe and smaller headers (2.0").
Heads are the same.
Thanks for the compliment on the MPH now we need an ET to match it.

Thanks guys for all the great feedback! I have learned a bunch and got some great ideas. I have some of the parts for the build right now on my current 350. Here are the parts I plan to keep from it:

AFR 195's
Air Gap Intake
3310 Holley 750
1.52 comp magnum rollers
1 3/4 Hooker Super Comps
286/490 comp magnum 236 at .050( maybe??)

If I keep that cam should I keep the compression at 10.5? As for the exhaust should I keep the 1 3/4 or go 1 5/8? Also 3" or 2.5 exhaust?? Would I change anything spec wise if I did this on a 383??
Thanks guys!

Originally posted by 6D9:

If I keep that cam should I keep the compression at 10.5?

Yes, stay 10.5 with the larger cam

As for the exhaust should I keep the 1 3/4 or go 1 5/8?

1-3/4" would be my choice

Also 3" or 2.5 exhaust??

2-1/2" mandrell bent tubes with good flowing mufflers will support 500 HP. I think 2-1/2" pipes are the way to go on the street because they are generally a lot quieter than 3" pipes, cheaper to install, and adequate for your power level.

Would I change anything spec wise if I did this on a 383??

No, I wouldn't. Your power band would just up in the RPM range a little.

Thanks guys! Hope that helps --- just my opinion.

As for the exhaust should I keep the 1 3/4 or go 1 5/8? Also 3" or 2.5 exhaust??

If you have 1-3/4" headers with a 3" collector, maintain the collector diameter all the way to the crossover pipe. A 2-1/2" tailpipe is sufficient, but you don't want a major area reduction in the collector/headpipe. Dr. Gas makes a 3" x 2-1/2" X-pipe that does this job very well.

I finally got my combo up and running block cast#509 400 30over with federal mugal hyper, compression 10;2 comp s282 air gap rpm demon750 hooker comp headers , American thunder 50 flows 700r trans 3000 Hughes 10in stall corvette servo and over drive valve with a 3.73 rear end only 300 miles but fills strong in about a week or two I `ll start running her hard It in a 81 z-28