I am a autobody man who had to go on disability 6 years ago due to a bad back and a liver transplant I am also a single dad with a 12 year old son. I have a 1976 camaro I bought over a year ago and have the body all ready to paint. Living on disability is not easy so when it came to getting a engine for my car I placed a ad on craigslist wanting to trade bodywork for a 350 engine. This is where my problem started. A guy responded to my ad and said he had a engine in his corvette he was pulling out and putting a vortek engine in. He even took me over where the vette was so I could hear the engine run.I was satisfied and decided we would make a deal.He had a 85 fiero he wanted ready for paint so I imediatly started working on this car. I have $200. out of pocket expenses for materials.I did alot of work to this car (switching the whole back section of the body from a SE to a GT. The GT back was a broken up piece of junk that I had to fiberglass it back together and then moulded in these fiberglass panels.) He told me to get the car ready to paint and we would make the trade. I went as far as wet sanding the whole car so all it would need is blown off ,tapped and painted.I finished my part at the end of Febuary and the car is still sitting in my yard.He has been telling me for the past 5 months that the next day he is bringing me the engine and he will not even answer his phone now when I call. I have his car chained to a large pine tree in my yard so it can not disappear when I am not at home. I came to find out this guy hasn't had a job in a year and tries to make deals with people to support himself,wife and 3 kids. Does anyone here have any ideas on what I can legally do to put pressure on this guy to get compensated for my work? I do not have the money for a attorney.Any help would be appreciated. Thanks

it prolly isnt even his car your working on

Time to move on and cut your losses IMHO. They guy is a flake and you will have a hard time getting anything from him. You might be able to put a lien on the car and sell it but you need to look into that.

Don

it prolly isnt even his car your working on
You are probly right!!!

I would make it disappear and cut your losses. You both lose.

you need a mechanics lien

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanic%27s_lien

Mechanics liens in Florida are hard to get. I read where the judge looks at it as a privledge,not something that is owed to you. Plus I do not want to get any deeper in this financially than I already am. I guess the only thing I can do is learn another hard lesson on trusting people and say screw it and move on.

A quick disclaimer: I'm only a law student and have not passed the bar exam; therefore this is NOT legal advice. But, from one TC friend to another, here's my two cents:

It sounds like you know where the guy live, yes? If so, you need to get his address and full name and file suit in small claims. I don't know about FL, but in TX small claims courts can handle any disputes for $10K or less.

If you can't afford an attorney, you have two choices: (1) seek an attorney who will take your case pro bona (start here: http://www.abanet.org/legalservices/probono/directory/florida.html -- if you don't have any luck there, find the closest law school and find out of they have any legal clinics); or (2) go to court and represent yourself (known as pro se).

I know (2) sounds intimidating, but small claims courts are set up for people exactly like you who don't have a ton of resources to file in district/county court. They're the most accessible courts, and, usually, court dates will come up quicker than district/county court.

When you go to small claims, there will be a fee to file, but it shouldn't be too much (I'm guessing $50-$100 maybe - varies by jurisdiction -- bur remember, if you win your case, you can sue for the court/filing costs you pay as well). There should be a form that you fill out, typically known as a "complaint," or a "statement of claim." There, you (the soon-to-be plaintiff) will tell them who you're suing (the defendant), your side of the events, and what you think the defendant owes you, e.g., the $200 you have invested in supplies, plus your time and effort for labor (however much you would normally charge for that work). Or, you could seek what is known as specific performance, meaning that you will give him his car back completed with all the work you agreed to do, and the defendant will in turn give you the engine you wanted (assuming he still has it). That's a decision you'll have to make, but, if I were you, I'd sue for my money/expenses back.

Your profile says you're in Jacksonville. If you or the person you want to sue live in Duval County, it looks like you can actually file your claim online! (Amazing! I didn't know they were doing this!) https://www.ncourt.com/nCourtEFile/Introduction.aspx. If nothing else, contact the court at the number on this link and get info directly from the court.

Hope this helps, and best of luck.

I am sure Zac's way of proceeding makes the most sense but if this guy is a flake it is likely he has nothing so there is nothing to be got going that direction. I would part out the Fiero to the point you think you are even or close to it. It would be very difficult for him to claim what was there when you started and if he has a history of scams in his past you have that going for you also.

It turns into a "his word against yours"

Zac, has very good advice, jut remember, Fiero, stands for FIRE, more of those things
burned on the road, or scrap, and lick your wounds, take the right off, and learn. On
disability you are not allowed to work?

Whatever you do be extremely careful not risking losing your disability. If this guy is as big a jerk as he is, he could easily turn you into the Social Security office for disability fraud and cause you to be investigated.

You could always recreate that scene in the movie "Used Cars" with Kurt Russel as long as you have enough room in your backyard to dig the hole. ;)l:)

Seriously, that stinks; and it's a sticky situation given your position. Sorry I do not have any logical ideas but I hope you end up in the right.

I would part out the Fiero to the point you think you are even or close to it.

As tempting as that may be, keep in mind that selling property that is not yours and that you do not have permission to sell is a crime. We want the OTHER guy in trouble with the law -- not Rob!

Rob, if you go to court, it keeps you on the right side of the law AND, assuming you win, you will have the power of the court behind you, i.e., if the D doesn't pay up, he can be sent to jail.

And, if it turns out that the guy has no other assets (meaning he doesn't have the cash to pay you), the court can make him turn over the title to the Fiero to you and then you can sell it off and get your money out of it.

Thanks Zac for the advice,I will make a few phone calls on monday and see where I stand. I try and be a honest person and will not put myself on the level of someone who would distroy or sell this car. If I lose at least I will know I did not stoop to the level of a criminal.

If you don't find any help after you make some calls, shoot me a line and I'll see if I can network with some attorneys in Jacksonville. I'm sure we can find one willing to give you a free phone consultation and give you some actual legal advice.

Zac, has very good advice, jut remember, Fiero, stands for FIRE, ...

BTW, not to make light of your situation, Rob, but John's comment reminds me of the time my friend's Fiero caught on fire in high school.

At the time (1996-ish) we had been involved in some, uh... hi jinx, with a rival high school. My buddy drove usin his Fiero to a scheduled altercation. Some scuffles ensued, eggs were thrown, syrup balloons were tossed, etc, etc. Anyway, it ended without major incident as most things did back in those days.

Well a couple of days later, smoke started coming out of the hood of my buddy's Fiero while we were at a stop light. We killed the ignition immediately, but it was too late. Stuff was a-burnin. By shear chance a random dude in a truck next to us at the light jumps out with a fire extinguisher, starts spraying it down to the point that the flames were gone. So, we carfeully popped the hood to make sure everything was out and evaluated the situation. The guy with the extinguisher goes "Sh*t, y'all were lucky!" And of course we nodded our heads in agreement and said thank you thank you, etc. And then he goes "I've never smelt a car burn before, but I never thought it'd smell like maple syrup!"

AAHAHA! Oh man! Those were the days.

Thanks again, I will let you know how it goes.

Whatever you do be extremely careful not risking losing your disability. If this guy is as big a jerk as he is, he could easily turn you into the Social Security office for disability fraud and cause you to be investigated.

X2.I know a guy just got turned into SSI for working on cars and lifting heavy stuff. I heard he might be spending some time in jail.
Rich

X2.I know a guy just got turned into SSI for working on cars and lifting heavy stuff. I heard he might be spending some time in jail.
Rich
I am not commiting fraud,I hurt almost every minute of every day. I am just not one who can just sit and do nothing all day. I do not get out there and work a 8 hour day,I work at my own slow pace most of the time sitting while working. Any lifting is done by my son or my friends. I came to this site seeking advice for a legal way to handle my situation,not to be accused of commiting government fraud.

This isn't a legal site. These aren't lawyers. This is an automotive site. These are backyard (and sometimes professional) mechanics.
And this is the Body Shop forum. Not Legal Advice forum.... which we do not have.

Please don't get bent out of shape because of what people say. They're more looking out for you than pointing out anything you might be doing illegally. They weren't trying to throw anything in your face.

If you need legal advice, this is the last place I'd come. I'd contact a real attorney familiar with these types of cases in a formal setting.... not an online message board.

Thats terrible, sorry to hear about issues with this guy. If you did not get anything in writing i would take it to small claims just to get all this documented on paper. It would be best so it can end here.

This isn't a legal site. These aren't lawyers. This is an automotive site. These are backyard (and sometimes professional) mechanics.
And this is the Body Shop forum. Not Legal Advice forum.... which we do not have.

Please don't get bent out of shape because of what people say. They're more looking out for you than pointing out anything you might be doing illegally. They weren't trying to throw anything in your face.

If you need legal advice, this is the last place I'd come. I'd contact a real attorney familiar with these types of cases in a formal setting.... not an online message board.
You are right Joe, sorry if I came on as though I were offended. I like this site and when ever I can,I enjoy trying to help someone out with the experience I have in paint and bodywork. Thanks to everyone for your concern and help with this matter.

You were not accused of commiting fraud, you were being WARNED that what you are doing COULD BE commiting fraud and that involving the police or court MAY get you in more hot water than you have now.

And this is all I think of when I read your story. Again, I am not a lawyer but when you are working "under the table" you are commiting a "crime". And trading a motor instead of cash makes not one bit of difference. If you look at a 1040 there is a line for items you "bartered" and asking the VALUE of the item. The IRS doesn't look at it innocently, it isn't something you "work at my own slow pace" or you are in pain, if you are working collecting a motor (or cash) while you are "claiming" to be disabled and collecting a DISABILITY check, you are breaking the law. It may be innocent and all and many of us have done it. In the eyes of the law, you are breaking one.

This isn't my beating you up, this is simply what I THINK you may be in for if you try to put the pressure on this guy. Honestly, just keeping the car until he gives in may be your only chance. And if he comes to get it with the law, you have no written contract, not work order, no legal leg to stand on.

Brian

Yeah, I won't attempt to give legal advice. I am just glad I have straightened up and managed to avoid seeing a courthouse or lawyers for quite a few years now.

Yep, like others I see two big problems. One is you most likely not a "legit shop" and its illegal to paint in a residential area, without paying taxes, paying for disposal, ect that all legit shops must go thru. So this could be a problem if they want to be dicks about it.
And two, like mentioned many times, they may frown on the fact you were working if you are collecting a disability check.

If nothing else, a good learning experience. I've done a bit of sidework in the past. Your even more of a magnet for the cheapskates and scammers when your doing work out of your garage at home. Of course none are looking for show work or a really good job (translation, they are looking for a really good job, but don't want to pay for it, or they probably would be taking it to the bodyshop down the street)

Getting work doesn't seem to be much of a problem, but you have to know who your dealing with, or be pretty good at judging character. Your typical shop doesn't want to deal with an older car, rust, or a complete paint job, or will charge a lot for it, and work on it only when insurance work is slow. And I wouldn't even think of trying to get work thru a place like craigslist, with the number of cheapskates and scammers hanging out there. I did buy some stuff thru there, but don't know how much I would trust the average person hanging out there, and doing work for them
Where else can you find someone shopping to beat maaco's price?
I did get the truck I have now, in barter for a paint job. But I had done work for the guy before, and met him thru a forum, not craigslist. Think I still got the short end of the stick on the deal, because had lots of hours in the car, bought materials, and last year the engine blew, and had to find a new one and swap it in.

I've been lucky that the majority that I have done work for, doing a side job here or there since getting out of auto body school 20 years ago, have been pretty decent people, and I got paid for what I did. Even if I really didn't make much.
And luckily I've always had decent neighbors too.

I don't know though if its really even worth doing, when you consider most people are looking for a great deal or cheap work, and the hot water you could get into for that little extra cash, if you get involved with the wrong person, or there is someone around who has nothing better to do during the day, then worry about what you are doing. The last couple years I've pretty much only either helped out relatives, or worked on my own stuff. Unfortunately for the most part I enjoy the work, and miss it when I ain't doing it, even if I feel different in the middle of the job, when problems arise, or your sick of slaving and looking at the same car forever, that isn't even yours, and your not even really making all that much on. The only jobs that really seem worth doing, are smaller jobs you can finish in a weekend, maybe a bumper job, or a newer car with a dent in the fender where you can just pull, blend and clear the panel, and know about what time the book gives you and can get it done fairly quickly.

Maybe a good lesson. If you do decide to do more work for the public, Get paid for all materials up front. and a bigger job should log your time, and get paid for what you did every 40 hours or whatever you decide, before doing any more work. Always seem to be issues you run into, or the customer decides he wants to change something (if you just shoot a price, then of course you should do the extra for no extra charge.)
Only way I see to get paid for the work you do, and not getting stiffed after putting in a lot of labor.
No pay, then work stops, and it gets pushed outside or goes by by. And maybe even get things in writing. I haven't gotten things in writing, but luckily haven't had a problem yet.