Well, the new 388 is gone...sold it to a street rodder buddy along with the xe284 cam since he didn't want the solid in there. Since I got a wad of cash all at once for it, the "newest" new 388 is coming right along. Same foundation as before...4 bolt 350, decked to 9.005, .060 over (was .040 over but had rust pits in the bores), already have a SFI balancer and flexplate that was ordered for the last engine. I am going to use another Scat crank and rods, along with wiseco forged pistons this time instead of the KB's. Cam is an isky 247/254@.050 solid, 108 lca, .507/.525 lift ground on a small base circle, and since I have it will go ahead and use it. Since nobody seems to make a forged piston for a 383 between a flat top and a -20cc dish, I am looking at using a forged flat top piston (-5.4cc) with either an aluminum 64cc head, or an iron 72cc head. www.dirttrackthunder.com (http://www.dirttrackthunder.com) has some killer prices on the dart iron eagles. 64cc with this setup equals about 11.1-1 compression, while 72cc heads is about 10.2-1 (about perfect for this cam I would think with iron heads). I belive either setup will work, but the iron eagles are about $300 cheaper than the aluminum pro-1's, so that is probably the direction I will go. Now for my question...200cc or 215cc? The 215's have bigger 2.055 intake valves, but will the extra port volume hurt the midrange torque? I assume they will. I can get the iron eagles for under $900 with the 1.44 dual springs (that I need), is there maybe another head I should be looking at? Should I just get the bare heads and have my machine shop build them? Here's the rest of the combo...3.73's, eaton posi, approx 3400 stall ATI 10" convertor, approx. 3500 pound '77 nova, 1 5/8" headers, dual 2 1/2" exhaust, 750 carb, and either a performer rpm or a low rise single plane intake like a weiand 7530 (which would be better?). At this time a taller intake like a vic jr. won't fit under the stock hood with any sort of air cleaner on it, but I know a performer rpm will. Thanks in advance.

Travis,

With that cam, I would say the 215's are better matched, but the rest of the combo is more suited to the 200's.

Therefore, I would probably start with the 200's and have them ported later if you decide to get more aggressive with the whole combo.

What about the iron ProToplines? They come in 200cc I believe and you can get them with 72cc chambers. They are supposed to flow a bit better than the Dart Iron Eagles.

I have never tried 210-215 cc heads on a 383 so I can't say if they will hurt your midrange, but I can say that a good flowing 195-200cc head will make awesome TQ down low AND pull to 6500+ in a hot 383.

Just my opinion.

IMO, the 200cc runners will be a better choice.
Have you looked at the Canfield heads?
Seems to me I`ve seen them listed at $900 or so somewhere, maybe Competition Products.
I used a set (195 cc) on a 383 and it runs strong.

With the compression you`re looking at I`d save up some more and strech for the aluminum heads, later on you`ll be glad you did.

Thanks for the replys. I checked out competition products...they are kind of lacking in selection on heads. The canfields price bare thru them isn't bad...$700, but they come machined for 1.55 springs (too big), and you can only get them bare. The heads can be purchased thru canfield, but at $1330 :eek: I'll have to pass. AFR's are cheaper than that at $1250.

I went into CHP's online archives and found their flow bench numbers they run a few years ago. The iron eagle 200's don't look so good anymore. How about the holley system-max heads? 68cc chamber aluminum heads, 185cc intake ports, intake flow numbers nearly dead on with the trick flow 23* heads, but slightly lower exhaust numbers. Since I already have a dual pattern cam, they sound good on paper, and the price is pretty good on them. Anybody ever tried them?

I run a 215 head on my 383.
Its a TFS 215R head, I ported it so its actually bigger, probably over 220cc.
My 383 is a daily driver (or will be one day), so its mild - a 224/224 hyd. roller, 10.8:1
with an RPM and 1 3/4" dyno headers it made 490hp@5900 and 495tq@4500.
Most street 383s make around 500tq, so you can see it wasnt down on tq.
Since you're building a 388 with more cam, I'd say go with a 210-220 head, with
2.05 or 2.08 valves. You have enough stall, it will flash over 4000rpm, so it will put you
close to peak tq anyway. You'll need to get some 1 3/4" headers and a 3" exhaust
will help, also try an HP950. Your 383 should make around 500hp, and put you well
in the 11s. graemlins/hurray.gif Dont forget a good fuel system for it.

67RS502, I have seen your 383 combo posted here before. Very interesting setup. I must say though, the kid in me still loves a lumpy idle, and I would think your setup would sound quite mild. Perfect sleeper motor for sure. Also, the convertor I have, per ATI, should have a flash stall of around 3400 rpms or so with the setup I spec'd out to them when I ordered it.

Travis, just my .02 cents. I LOVE my AFRs. Worth every penny.

Travis
Dont be surprised if the ATI stalls/flashes more then what they say.
I dont know that much about GM's Vortecs or Fast Burn heads, but (from TC) sounds
like youre expecting a big difference in torque between a Vortec, FB, and a (big) 220cc
aftermarket head.
OK, first "lets say you" stuck these 3 heads on your typical (450hp/500tq)street 383.

The vortecs (170cc)would have the best low end off idle tq, but would be down on hp
because of their flow #s and small port/valve size, they would make about the same midrange
tq as the other heads.
The FB's (210cc) may have a bit less off ides throttle response, but will make about the
same mid range tq and make way batter peak hp, because of their (I thought better flow #s),
chambers, and bigger valves, and bigger port, well suited for a 383. They will make about
the same mid range tq, but more hp.

Now you stick a 220AFR on it (everyone says its too big), well its only slightly bigger then
a FB (which GM sticks on their 350s) but this head has a better port, cleaned up bowl, better
chamber (unshrouded valves) raised exhaust, better valves, better valve job, back cuts......
This head looses some more off ides tq, but recovers by mid range and is makin almost the
same peak tq as the GM heads, but makes another 30hp more then the FB heads.

Now lest say you stick driver A behind the wheel of the Vortec headed 383 - he says -
its got great tq (500+) and good hp (450), who wouldnt 450hp aint bad! and all kinda tq
would be impressive too.

Driver B get the FB motor and it still makes about the same tq so he says it runs great,
and has big upper end power (say 490hp) which would run pretty good, would anyone
be disappointed for a mild street car - no!

Driver C get the 220AFR motor and says its a bit mushy of idle, but makes good mid tq
but really pulls hard with the 500+hp. cant be disappointed there.

My point is all 3 engines would run well, and none would be disappointing or slow. They
would make around 500tq which would feel stout on the street, and would be way more
streetable then a 350.

Ever notice that a BB408 will make more power (tq&hp) then a SB408, above 4500rpm or so?
The port size, valve size, intake size have alot to do with it. And the BB will still be faster
with the extra weight its caring. Dont worry about port size on a lager engine (383+) so much,
if your sticking a "350" head on a 388 is that optimizing the combo - no.
Pick a CID, HP/TQ #s you want, an rpm band you want them in and stick the part that
will work with it. Sometimes we're just too conservative on the part, wanting 1000tq off idle,
why? it wouldnt hook anyway, we dont race at 2000rpm, and if the engine only has 300tq
at 2000rpm is that not enough for driving around? Use the best parts you can afford not
the smallest. How many killer 383 do you see with a 600 holley, performer and 1 5/8"
headers - none! The good ones have a 1000cfm carb great flowing heads, good exhaust
and a mid cam so its nice & streetable. OK - I'm done. ;)

(Dont get me started on that David Vizard article in Pop. HDing - a 1020cfm carb on a 383,
say it aint so, can I get a "too big"? but it made the most power and had great tq down low,
That David Vizard - he must know something? or is he just feeding up BS) :rolleyes:

[ 07-15-2003, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: 67RS502 ]

I have a set of Pro Toplines on Ebay right now at a great price they are 72CC Chamber 200 Intake and upgraded Springs

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2423372039&category=33617

Jeff

Damnit, 67RS502, you're making sense...quit it ;) I guess a lot of the indecision I am running into is caused by the fact this will be my first 383. Nearly all of my previous engine building has been done on 300-350ci sized motors in considerably heavier cars and mostly trucks, and most with quite tall gearing and low stall speed convertors. For some reason I can't seem to get into the mentality that this is an under 4000 pound ride, with a relatively high flash stall, 3.73's, and more ci's than what I am used to building. My method may very well vaporize any tire you put under it and then fall on its face at the 1000' mark. I am going to be tire limited on this nova because you just can't put much meat under them without serious work. But, at the same time, this isn't going to a be a strip only killer...I would love for it to squeek into the 11's but primarily this is going to be a cruiser. With my setup, would there be much benefit to stepping up to a 1 3/4" header? I assume I would probably need to anyway with a 200cc+ head just for a better exhaust port fit. The 1 5/8" headers cam with the car...the exhaust system has to stay for now though since I've got too much money in it already. I am open to all suggestions...this is a new level for me. I would like to be able to fry street tires at will, but at the same time be able to hook it up at the strip with minimal suspension work and sticky tires.

Balboni, thats a good price on those heads. Brand spankin' new huh? I don't have an e-bay id...shoot me an e-mail, would ya?