I know what it SAYS, but...

Full disclosure: I work for a classic car dealership in northeast Ohio, and we've been asked to sell this car. It's modified, with a mid 70's 454, dual quads, five speed, 17" wheels, etc. I opened the glove box and found this P-O-P, and the "MO" sounded familiar. I saw the trim tag with the 72 72 and the X66, so I knew it claims to be a big block orange car. The POP says it's a 427/auto/4.10 car with power steering and disc brakes. The date code on the POP matches the trim tag, but there's no way to tie the two together without the build sheet, which we don't have.

I'm a Mopar guy. I know what fake tags look like on my side, but I'm not that familiar with the Chevy stuff yet. I thought COPO trim tags had a string of characters above the top line, or is that only 68? I really don't want to mis-represent this car. It's very cool the way it sits, but obviously it's worth a lot more as a COPO, and we're selling it for the owner. He is unsure of its authenticity. I've seen so much faked paperwork on Corvettes that I'm now leery of ANY Chevy.

The pictures are hosted on Flickr--go to my page to see the full-size pics if you'd like: http://www.flickr.com/photos/pettybird

Thanks

Doug


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4124/5016472634_003828b636.jpg



http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5015863511_c15745332e.jpg


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4112/5016476180_d67716e654.jpg

Definitely repro body tag.

Don't know about the p-o-p but I've never seen any of those drivetrain dates before.

Does the VIN on the POP match the VIN of the car. The Vin is located in the dash visible through the windshield. The number on the trim tag is just the body number. The next thing to check after the VIN to the POP is do the hidden VINs match the dash vin.

Jeff

POP does not look quite right to me, but I am not an expert. And I don't have any 69 POPs close to that date for comparison.

POP looks to be too clean IMO - never any corrosion, finger residue etc????

Tag being fake should be enough for you to insist on selling it as nothing more than a clone.

Definitely repro body tag.

Don't know about the p-o-p but I've never seen any of those drivetrain dates before.


How do I know it's a repro tag? Again, I'm new to the real/fake stuff for GM. I know the rivets look doctored, at least. Font? spacing?

How do I know it's a repro tag? Again, I'm new to the real/fake stuff for GM. I know the rivets look doctored, at least. Font? spacing?
Doug, they wont tell you that or what is wrong with it for that matter. The guys/gals who are faking tags and cars will get better at there trade... Once you see enough fakes it gets easy to tell...
Jess

The rivets on that tag were good enough to fool me. After William said it was fake I looked agin and saw one of the signs I look for that I missed the first time. The guys that are real good at spotting fake tags have a data base of known real tags to compare to.

Jeff

I googled Jim Quinlan and looks like its still in buisness. you can try calling to see if they know anyone with 1969 info but probably a slim chance. Also try to find the person on the POP but with that trim tag may not find good news.

Jim Quinlan Chevrolet
15005 Us Highway 19 N
Clearwater, FL
33764-7163
Phone: (727) 531-5831

Doug, they wont tell you that or what is wrong with it for that matter. The guys/gals who are faking tags and cars will get better at there trade... Once you see enough fakes it gets easy to tell...
Jess


I understand that. Someone new posting on one of the mopar forums doesn't get much help with spotting, either... There's a guy on dodgecharger.com who's trying to make a fake build sheet for his special order 999 code Corporation Blue Superbird, and he's asking all the wrong questions. I have the build sheet for MY 999 'bird on my desk but I won't share because I don't trust his intentions...

So what's up with the POP? Good or no? I can't condemn the car for a repop body tag--they rust, and this car's had metal work. I really don't want to misrepresent the car, but I do have an obligation to the owner to prove/debunk what he has.

Thanks for the replies so far. If you'd like to see the caliber of cars we deal in, check out http://www.rhcollectibles.com (http://www.rhcollectibles.com/). I do the photos and descriptions, and I try very hard to be accurate. We're not out to screw anyone over.

Doug

Was this car out of Alabama at one time?

Tim Lopata
president
www.forgemusclecarshow.com

.

So what's up with the POP? Good or no? I can't condemn the car for a repop body tag--they rust, and this car's had metal work. I really don't want to misrepresent the car, but I do have an obligation to the owner to prove/debunk what he has.

Doug

POP's are difficult to authenticate because they are reproduced using the same equipment as original. Maybe someone else can spot a reproduction, but I have not seen enough of them to really tell.

GM trim tags are aluminum and never rust, so cars with reproduction tags are pretty much "condemned".

Reproduction documents and tags are available, you can even get them aged. Fraud is rampant. Probably worse than in the Mopar world.

I would be highly suspect. The warrenty card looks authentic but the POP looks fresh. That combined with the fake tag would lead me to believe that there is nothing authentic about the car. FYI, 69 Camaro trim tags do not rust. More times than not, the intent behind replacing a trim tag is to defraud. Additionally, I am not sure why someone would put an X66 tag on a COPO car especially since the POP is with the car. X66 denotes SS396 without style trim, not COPO. The only exception to my knowledge would be the first 50 1969 Yenko Camaros that were ordered with an X66 chasis.

Have any detailed photos of the firewall.... Like to see a shot showing the area above the fuse block on the firewall.

The bad old TrimTags Inc trim tag certainly raises concerns.. but I do have a POP from one of my old 67 Vettes that has been in my possession since 1984 that looks just as nice. I can post if anyone would like to see.

So what's up with the POP? Good or no? I can't condemn the car for a repop body tag--they rust, and this car's had metal work. I really don't want to misrepresent the car, but I do have an obligation to the owner to prove/debunk what he has.
Doug

For the POP - Check ebay. Some is selling reproductions

Looks like a repop POP to me. Dont walk.............RUN!!

Run Forest run!! Aluminum trimtags do not rust!!

What's with the small "addressograph" stamped into the protect-o-plate? I've never seen that before.

What's with the small "addressograph" stamped into the protect-o-plate? I've never seen that before.


Hard to see but it's there

You would think the scammers could at least use different body numbers.

http://home.townisp.com/~markcanning/camaro/tag_9N589340_NOR251214_Z11_repro.jpg

This ones also a repro.

Wow, thats just crazy!

LOL on the body number!
Ya Doug just sell it for what it is :)
Even if the POP numbers match the dash, just disclose everything you know.

That is funny. I guess if you are randomly generating numbers you can get a hit on the same number when trying to come close to the build date of a real tag or they both copied the same tag?

As far as missing tags........
There are real 427 COPO Camaros with missing trim tags that were removed during racing modifications. There is one old drag car that has no trim tag, no vins, and no paperwork but has original baby pictures that clearly show it was a 427 COPO Camaro and the car was from a known 427 dealer

8300 seemed like an odd street address for a house so I did a Google search on the address on the POP and paperwork. It's a mobile home park that's looks to have been there since at least the early 60's, and is still there. Not that it proves anything, but the address(s) on the paperwork should have a lot number on them, shouldn't they? The 8300 address is the whole park.

So a guess someone who lived in a mobile home went out and bought themself a 69 COPO Camaro in March of 69. Most likely costing and or worth more than their home...lol.

.

Why not? didn't Joe Dirt have a Dodge Daytona at a trailer park? :)

I did the same Google search yesterday. Saw the same mobile home park.

I did the same Google search yesterday. Saw the same mobile home park.
Not just a trailer park, but the Majestic Park Homes.

There is also a million plus Google hits for Alan Maclean Florida

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4086/5015863511_c15745332e.jpg


You would think the scammers could at least use different body numbers.

http://home.townisp.com/~markcanning/camaro/tag_9N589340_NOR251214_Z11_repro.jpg

This ones also a repro.

Ok...

The car will be sold on its merits, and I will mention the COPO POP, but say that I cannot confirm its authenticity. I will also point out that the trim tag is a reproduction. Thank you for the help, and the laugh--the other fake tag with the same body number is priceless.

Doug

Run Forest run!! Aluminum trimtags do not rust!!


<<<Mopar guy mistake...aren't some tags on some years steel? I thought the older cars had them?


And hey droptop where in TN are you from? I have a pair of Superbirds here in Cleveland, and spent a couple days down at Mike Atkins' place in Tellico Plains on the way to Talladega last fall. Did you go?

I'm hosting next year's combined wing car national meet in cleveland--love to have you!

Doug Croxford

How about the fact that the other trim tag is for a 69 Pacecar, except its for a coupe and its 3 weeks to early. Oh well can't expect people making fake tags to get everything correct.