After all my 385 stroked SBC buildup trials and tribulations once again I have reached another crossroad and request your help in which heads to use. I currently have a set of Edelbrock RPM 72cc Heads which worked GREAT on the old 355cid but now that she is stroked to 385cid I know I could do better.
I’m leaning towards a set of AFR’s but I’m not really sure on which flavor. 180’s, 190’s or 195’s. I’m hoping ya all can help out.
Here is the set up config.
1971 350cid 4 bolt main 10/20 block bored to 4.040.
Shaved .010 off the deck.
10.3:1 comp
Mains aligned honed.
Eagle 4340 Light weight Steal 3.75 stroke Crankshaft. Internally balanced.
Eagle 4340 Steal 6” H-beam connecting rods.
SRP 2valve flat top pistons. PT# 138094
Balanced within ½ g
File fit rings. PT# J100F8-4040-5 Set to .018 top, .020 2nd.
Cleveite bearings
Comp Cams XE274H-10
Comp Cams Magnum roller tip rockers 1.52”
Edelbrock Performer RPM Intake. Spread bore type
Rochester 750 Q-Jet carb
Edelbrock Performer RPM 72cc heads
Melling HV Oil pump
Milodon Oil pump pickup
Milodon Oil pump pickup
Milodon 30900 low profile 7qt oil pan
Milodon Louvered windage tray & pan baffle
ARP bolts through out.
BTO 2004R Level 3 automatic Trans with 2400 stall HP converter.
10 bolt 8.2 posi 3:55 gears.
Still need to figure out which Headers. Leaning towards 1 ¾ thorleys.

Also, anyone care to Dyno this setup please?

Thanks!
Kurt

Based upon wet flow #'s and for the money involved,, I would go for the AFR 195 and have them cut to your suit your compression ratio with your piston... I see 10.3 listed and you could get away with it with alum heads...These heads come with 1.4 springs but if cam lift is high,, they may recommned 1.5. Read up on this
http://airflowresearch.com/articles/article54/A-P1.htm

and this:
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html#AFR%20Street%20190cc

The 195's flow just a little better than 190's but compare over all heads in this catagory and at approx mid lift range,, say .400. too much above that with 1.5 rockers get unrealistic.

before you make boat anchors out of the edels,what are you going to do with them?
Eric

Not trying to sway your decision, but look at Protoplines. I compared the 195' AFR's to the 200 Pro's and for the price.... I went with the Pro's. Just another option.

http://www.tristatecylinderhead.com/ <-- best price I found on the Pro's.

Good point about the Edelbrock heads Sleeper. They are a good starting point if you have them already. Maybe you could just pay for a good port job? Or were you planning on selling them to finance the new heads?

If you want new ones I have had excelent results with AFR 195s but there are lots of other good heads out there as well.

Don't be so quick to banish the edelbrock heads. Do some searching here and on team chevelle...theres guys with these same heads running way into the 11's with the 170cc edelbrock heads right out of the box.

Guys,
Thanks for the input here.

Zdld17: Very nice articles there ;) . I’m leaning hard towards the AFR 195's. I see many of you out there very happy with them.
I’m even open to the idea of axing the XE274-10 Hydraulic cam and going roller. A new frontier graemlins/hurray.gif

Sleeper86: LMFAO :D The Edelbrock Performer RPM heads only have a few hundred miles on them. I don’t thing they will be anchoring someone’s boat.
I may sell them, I haven't decided yet on which direction I am going. I have another stroked motor on a stand all new parts inside but not really what I wanted. I was in a rush at the time to get the Camaro back on the road before my 2nd son was born. Aboout 2 weeks before he was due my wife told me to get my *** in the house and quit playing in the garage. :( About that time she decided that she was going to buy a 2nd dependable car and I could work on the Camaro when I thought I would have time. So now here I am almost 3yr's later. Taking my time and doing a Ground up Restoration. So its kind of in the way right now plus the old 355 that was knocking down on the floor on an engine dolly. Spun bearing or something.
I haven't torn it apart yet to find out what the problem was.
I ought just unload everything and keep the one I’m into right now. I seem to be a pack rat.

Something about having a roller motor reminds me of Tim the tool man on Home Improvements. Argh Argh Argh !!!

DOUG G: Protoplines. Hmmmmmmm Interesting smile.gif Need more info.

Greg O: Is it worth the expense to have the Edelbrocks Ported? Do I need to sell them to finance a new set of heads? No.
I just recently acquired some funds that would finance a new set of heads, a roller retro kit, and full roller rockers. graemlins/hurray.gif

Anyone else care to chime in here?

Thanks !

Kurt

travis:
I missed your post while I was trying to get the little savages down to sleep. Guess I will wonder over to Team Chevelle a bit later and take a look around. But for now I’m headed out to the garage to work on the car a bit.

Thanks!
Kurt

Search under user name "kazuaki" (I think thats it) on the chevelle board. 11.30's with out of the box rpm heads! And, I think Lonnie67 on here is running either very low 12's or very high 11's with almost exactly the same setup (383, xe274, rpm heads). Theres others too I'm sure.

Think i read somewhere Gale Trent from American Speed engines out Illinois says these rpm heads will respond to 50 horsepower with just bowl work !! I think they flow stock at around 233 cfm so 50 horse would bring them to around 255 cfm. Almost sounds too good for a port below 175cc??

Kurt, Nice to hear about the $$ windfall! graemlins/thumbsup.gif

If you are going to buy new heads then don't worry about porting the RPMs until you are ready for the next project.

The 'worth it' of the port work depends on the quality of the porting available in your area. Around here we have some pretty big shops that do Pro stock and Pro Mod engines and they get $125 for a basic bowl blend. I would think that is worth the money.

Here's another vote for keeping the RPM heads and having some work done on them (port work). If you throw 2 or 3 bills at them you should be able to have them where you need them. Looking at the rest of your combo they would be a perfect fit (torque). Sure there are better heads out there but, you already own these and for a few more bucks they can work fine. Even the better heads are not going to totally blow away your RPMs in this situation (based on the combo you have).

What are your goals for the car? With 3.55 gears, smallish cam, and 2400 stall I assume your goal is not to be the King of the 1/4 mile.

I would spend up to $500 on port work anything more than that and you might as well buy new heads. I don't think it would take $500 worth of work to get those heads where you need them.

Greg O & Camaroman7d:

Thank you for your additional information. It all helps. Please keep it coming!

Camaroman7d:
No I don’t plan on being King of the ¼ mile. I just have the desire to be competitive and keep up with the rest of Ya!
I would like to try to make the low 12’s or even upper 11’s while maintaining street ability.

I am very much open for suggestions.
Keep the RPM’s and have them ported?
Different cam?
Change torque converter?

Help! My mind is a fried cesspool of confusion. LOL!

Kurt

ARF 195 streets- I / E Protoplines -
.200 = 132/108...........146/101
.300 = 198/156...........203/157
.400 = 240/178...........250/177
.500 = 260/190...........261/186
.600 = 262/194...........268/190

$1175 ...................$800

Ideal is to get in and out flow closer to 75% or above and I see here at .400 the AFR is 74% vs. proline 70%. We really dont know what type of research Proline does compared to AFR.. AFR been round long time. Your call ,

I am running the RPM heads and I am very happy with them. I bought them for a 327, but that changed to a 383 after I found issues with the 327. I was going to sell them and buy some AFR's, but I decided to try them and I have not been disappointed in anyway. My car runs very strong, I'm guessing 12's based on driving it an a car that runs 12's. Look at the flow numbers where your cam lift is. What good is it having heads flow at .600 when your cam lift is .480 for example. Just food for thought.

Just to mention, I have been told that Protoplines are under rated, but those numbers are from their sites. FYI, not to argue.

Also take a look at Canfields!! ;)

I have Pro Topline 180's and posted the flow #'s a while ago in the engine section. Although they're a great head, if I already had the RPM's, I wouldn't switch unless your racing the clock.

Here is an independent web site that flowed all cly heads at 28" water... Look up the head and see what the numbers are saying for your self.
http://purplesagetradingpost.com/sumner/techinfo/heads1.html#AFR%20Street%20190cc

Be sure to compare equal heads with equal sizes.

I agree with Rick, for the amount of power you "might" gain it is not worth the head swap. Now if you were starting with a GM casting from 10-30 years ago, I would be all in favor of a swap. In that case the swap would be a HUGE improvement. The RPM head is not a terrible head, have them opened up a bit and they will fit your combo just fine. It is always easy to spend other peoples money "go buy this or that". In this case I just don't see enough gain to justify $1200-1600 for a set of heads. It's your car and money, only you know your true goals.

I went deep in the 12's with a 385 and 882 76cc stock casting GM heads, I am 100% sure your RPM heads are FAR better than those old 882 smog heads.

As far as headers I would run 1 5/8" on your engine, again I am making my suggestions based on your combo, the gear, cam, and heads don't call for 1 3/4" headers (IMO). If you keep your combo matched, like it is you will have a much better performing car and you will have more fun driving it.

Now if you want to get wild them drop in a nasty solid cam, 3000-3500 stall, 3.73-4.11 gears, 1 3/4" headers and some 200-215cc heads. The end result will be much worse gas mileage and a slight ET improvement. My point is you have to give up bottom end to gain top end, right now your combo should have plenty of torque and work well with the 3.55's and the 2400 stall. If you buy larger heads and headers then you need more cam to take advantage of those parts, once you do that you will need more stall, and then more gear. All that is good if ET is all you are worried about. You may gain 5 or 6 tenths which is a lot in terms of racing but, not much in terms of street driving. You will also have to get that power to the ground (sub frame connectors, traction devices, roll cage). If this is where you want to go then I am all for it, Is that what you are after? I was under the impression you just wanted to make more power and have a nice driver.

I think with your current combo you have very low 12's in the bag (with traction) and maybe even 11.9*, if you do all the above then you will have 11.40 - 11.50 potential (IMO).

By looking at that chart the Canfields are the best flowing heads under 200cc at .400.... And probably one of the cheapest.

I am very happy with my Canfield 195cc heads, which has the bigger 2.08/1.60 valves instead of the regular 2.05/1.60 ones. I use it with a solid roller 350 sbc,Holley 700 cfm DP, muncie 4 speed, 4.11 rear in a 3000 pound car - runs 11.70 launching at 3000 rpm with traction problems. The small runners really help give the motor a wide torque band.
The AFRs are great but here's an option. It does flow better at .400 lift, which is where I wanted the power.
Good luck
Ken

My Pro Topline 180's flow 214 I and 187 E at .400. The efficiency is 95% at .200 95% at .300 and 87% at .400. This was measured by my machinist. Not too shabby.

I can 2nd the Canfields. PLus i bought mine from competition products in Oshkosh, IL. for $1055 shipped to my door. If you want bigger the 215's cost NO more, $1055 shipped.

With a small cam ( 218-230@.050) and 355 CID 9.8-1 I made 292 RWHP and 421TQ @ 2300. And they respond really good to spray.

Mike

I also use the Canfield 195's. And when I'm ready for a better flowing head.... it'll be Canfield 215 or 220's!! :D But I still haven't tapped these heads yet..

ProTopline heads is going out of business according to topic in CarCraft. May reappear under another company. Wonder what the problems was if their heads were so good.

Poor business management. According to Ron Shaver, Comp Cams will carry them.

Camaroman7d, what did you do to get 882 heads into the 12s? My 882's die around 4500rpms?

Well I did it now! smile.gif

After Much deliberation and several conversations with individuals whom do head work and build stroker motors for a living I have made my choice.
I was even asked if I had seen one of their recipes in their book of recipes. LOL!
For my recipe, I went with the AFR 195 68cc heads.
Keeping the XE274 cam.

Now Maby I can get a good night sleep on this issue. graemlins/clonk.gif

I want to thank those of you for your input on this issue. graemlins/beers.gif

kurt

so are you gonna sell the boat anchors?
email me
Eric

I have a set of Torquers coming for my 68 Camaro. I got a real deal on the heads and a solid cam kit from SmithBerg Racing and will let you know once I get everything put together. For all I am getting I even beat Summit and Jegs.