If I were to build a stout 383 or 406 is this TPI 700r4 with 3000 stall gonna hold up? Or should I put a TH400 in it with 3.55's and later go with the gear vendors set up? Thanks Ron

What is your application?

Just saw your other post. I recommend a TH400.

have a close friend who owns an 89 RS packing a 454 H.O. (crate motor) backed by a 700-R4, nothing fancy inside: shiftkit and fairbanks servo
anyway, car runs consistent 12s and the trans is living a happy life
from what I have seen it really isn't torque that kills 700s, it's rpms
don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that you shouldn't build it to handle the power, but the 700 and the 200 are much stronger than they get credit for, maybe not 400 strong, but they can be built to handle a lot

the gear vendors is a nice option too

check out a place called FLP (finish line performance) in the chitown area, they build an awesome 4L60E (electronic 700) check em out

Originally posted by fast:
from what I have seen it really isn't torque that kills 700s, it's rpmsWHAT???
RPM's kill valve springs, torque kills transmissions.

Imho, go with an Art Carr built 200-R4 that is built by the real Art Carr.

There was quite a long post over at Team Chevelle that I tried very hard to keep alive about a guy(s?) that wanted to make the 700 live above 500hp AND he/they sold the car before it was ever done!!! Seems several were broken and it still wasn't figured out!!!!!!!

THe 200 tranny can take upwards to 800+ hp easy with the correct mod's and has been deemed stronger at this stage of the game then a built 700!! It has the research and development by Hot Rodders and the Grand National crowd so has been figured out how to make it live at these power levels!!!

But it will cost probably change out of $2500 to come up with a, (as near as you are going to), bullit-proof small sized, O.D. tranny!!

Sure you can go with a 4L80E tranny that is just an O.D. 400 tranny but it is EXPENSIVE AND HEAVY!!!

PLUS, a stock, bullit-proof tranny is an O.D., C-6 tranny by Ford, period!!! But you gotta adapt it to our motors. AND it is bigger then the 4L80E!!!

pdq67

Hope lightning doesn't strike but this time CNC and I agree. :rolleyes: Torque kills trannies.

Thanks guys, I will have to think about this one. It will be hard to give up the OD and go back to a 3 speed!

6D9,

I contacted Art Carr, the man, direct after being told that my 496 will probably eat my M-20 for lunch!! And next, my 12 bolt so I contacted Currie and Moser for info on a Ford 9" after that...

So please look into a built 200-R4 tranny if you still want that O.D.!!

The man said yes to one behind 800 hp!!! And my engine being like around 550hp was a piece a cake!!

pdq67

pdq,

what C6 trannies are OD? never heard of that one. thought they were just 3 speed autos with a 1:1 final drive ratio.

Originally posted by CamaroNOTcamero:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by fast:
from what I have seen it really isn't torque that kills 700s, it's rpmsWHAT???
RPM's kill valve springs, torque kills transmissions. </font>[/QUOTE]example: buddies 454 doesn't spin past 6k and his 700 is fine, lots of torque
my 355 spun to 7k and my 700 died a toasty smelly death
design flaw?
but no stocker is gonna live behind 600hp/ungodly torque/huge stall/7500 rpms either

get the right valve spring ya tool! lol graemlins/beers.gif

Originally posted by pdq67:
Imho, go with an Art Carr built 200-R4 that is built by the real Art Carr.
pdq67 agreed that the 200 has awesome potential!
just don't use an art carr torque converter . . . my 89 TTA just ate one! (it now stalls upwards of 6k, started life as a 3200, trans is fine though . . . 3500# car trapping @ 128)
PI Vigilante . . .or if you really need to be flexible on the stall Yank . . . great converters but pricey

piece. :cool: lmao

Define "Lots of torque"........

If anyone was paying attention to the other 700-R4 post, it was shown where the weaknesses are in the 700......and it IS the applied torque to the steel shaft that will crack the spline aluminum input drum. Period. And pay attention to the bold quote below.......

And I will quote a founding member of the ATRA:

One of the worst things you can do for the durability of this unit is to make it shift hard. The input drum is the main reason why this unit will never make it as a true high performance transmission. A steel input shaft is splined into a large aluminum drum. My experience has been that after a year, to a year and a half, the aluminum drum becomes stressed to the point of cracking around the spline area. If your the sort of fellow that likes to have his trans shift hard enough to put the dash board in your lap, you'd better use a different trans. This one will not live long with rock hard shifts.

The 3.01:1 first gear ratio is weaker than that of the 200-4R's 2.74:1 ratio, thats a given. Both the 700 and the 200 are weaker than a TH 350 or 400. Not to mention that if you have a device that is producing the majority of the torque multipulcation, it is going to have a shorter life, than one that shares the torque multipulcation between the trans and the differential. Your drivetrain is only as strong as your weakest link.

Now if you were not to hook very well with this car, or have a need for a rock hard shift.....than the 700 may just do the trick. To look at it another way, it has to be 'seen' from the majority. There are going to be failures of all transmissions......no 'ifs', 'ands' or 'butts'. And the big guys in the transmission business seem to share the same opinion's concerning these issues. The correct answer to this has a lot of variables that need to be considered and addressed to provide you with the proper transmission for your application.

How are you going to drive it? No BS here, how bad are you going to pound on it?

Will it be driven on the track? How much?

How much does the chassis weight? How much gear is going to be in it, are you gonna stay with the 3.55's? Does or will the chassis hook up all that hard?

I have seen 700's and 200's, as well as 350's and 400's take plently of abuse. I have put 700's behind really nasty big block's (500 inches and better) making numbers beyond the 800 mark and they work just fine. But I have also seen a little ole' small block destroy a 700 in a matter of weeks.......I really believe it comes down to the pile of parts and the cracker assembling the transmission, no matter what transmission it is.

None of this is any different than anything else in the automotive world. I can have two piles of the exact same parts with two different assemblers.....and have two totally different transmissions......but one of them is going to survive.

To answer your question if a 700 would survive.....yeah, it can. But it will fail sooner or later. For the same amount of money you have other options that are proven stronger and dont have '700-R4' attached to it.......

I dont think you would make a bad decession either way between a 700 or a 200 in your aplication. But forget the Gear Vendors garbage.

Tom,

The Gear Vendors stuff is no good?

Well, the thing is, I know more than I care to about them and the company. Also, where and whom they stole the idea from (and how that person got screwed in more ways than one........I will never do business with people "In the business" that have done what they have to a good man), so my opinion may be slightly sided.

But, I can tell you that adding a GV unit to a 4 speed AOD isnt really a 'good' considerable option. Its not small by any means and its weight and drivshaft modifications are also not involved in the quoted prices. How much room cab you really afford to loose?.......and then where are you going to put the exhaust? But an AOD with an OND and OVD stacked...? Why? Why would you want to do it in the first place in a street car? Makes NO sence to me........

The GV units are for when people cant do the differential and/or transmission to cover drivetrain inadequacies. Man, for that kinda money, I'd spend the $2500.00 on a real 200 capable of any abuse you caould afford.....and still have money left over in the pocket. Not to mention the GV unit ISNT cheap by any means.

But, it works great on towing rigs or motorhomes !! Not really a smart choice to throw money at in a street car. I have delt with quite a few of them before.......and its a nice product, design and workmanship wise. But why and where are you ganna put all of this in a street car?

I dunno, just not practical by any means in a passenger car.......

The great big Ford C-6 O.D. Tranny is called an E4OD tranny.

Virtually bullit-proof right outta the box!!

Check one of the monsters out if you want to learn more about them.

http://www.baumannengineering.com/e4odinf.htm

pdq67

They wernt bulletproof for the first few years in production.....that is until a founding member of the "ATRA" made Ford aware of its weakness in it and broke the bad news to them.

The information, data collection and rework R&D was done mainly by DRW, due to the fact that they were right across the street from the US Border Patrol 'depo' station, which by the way is where all of this OD stuff was being put to the test. And let me tell you, I saw some unbelieveable failures from those guys......they were HARD on their vehicles. Let me tell you......it used to be a daily occurence to cut a differential carrier out of the housing just to get the axles out of it. Lots of big broken chuncks. Well, they quickly found the weakness in both Fords AOD and GM's venerable "4L" series transmissions. The USBP was a perfect test bed for many parts, modification and upgrades that have now found themselves in curent production models.

The only reason I know all of this is, because I was the one doing the drivetrain related failure analysis and repair of the differential and transfer cases.

But ever since those guys figured out the Ford AOD....it has been their best transmission yet. The AOD is a stout piece thats for sure.

Thanks.

I never really like the idea of the Gear Splitting thing. In a "quick" car, you barely have time to shift through the present gears, and then to do it twice? :confused:

I guess it be ok to use it just on your final drive, but why when you could just get a good od tranny.