O.K. guys, I've got a 69 coupe with a 327 (210 horse I think), TH350 and 3.23 gears in a Pontiac 10 bolt rear. I've had the car for about 2 years now and have worked out most of the bugs. (It had sat for a long time before I got it) Here's the goal: I want at least 375 horse power with better low and mid range torque. I have read every thread I could find on the topic here at TC. I was thinking something along the lines of this combo: Comp Cams XE 268 cam, have my old 1.94's completely gone through, Edelbrock performer intake and Edelbrock 600 cfm carb. Hooker super comp. long tube headers (probably ceramic coated),a 2500-3000 stall converter, and a shift kit. I am currently running 14 x 7's and 235-60-14's

NOTE: I already have the intake and carb on the car and have installed a new hei system. This is the route that I think will put me in a happy place, but in other posts, I read that Holley makes a "systemax" kit that has it all for pretty low dough.
The other voice in my head is telling me to run out and go buy a crate engine from GM. This would be way more expensive, but I have heard great things about the ZZ430 and some of the others that the General offers. Any input, suggestions, or related experiences would be appreciated! graemlins/beers.gif
P.S. Click on my signature to see a pic of the chassis and some other "super Camaros"

Thanks-Dan graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Well im sure everyone will have their opinion on this but....Dont waste your money on having your 1.94 heads gone through. By the time you have them surfaced, new guides, hardened seats, new valves ,springs, shims, keepers, retainers, get the heads milled for screw in studs, guide plates etc, for little to no more money you could have a set of aftermarket iron eagles or pro topline or world products heads witch will outperform the old stockers no matter how much you work em over. even if it is a few more bucks its probably worth it. Also remember in choosing a cam there is alot more out there than "comp."

From a fellow 327 owner IMHO I don't think you'll reach 375 HP with that combo. Maybe get some new Pro Top-Line heads with larger valves, boost your compression, and a larger SOLID lifter cam.
Good Luck !!!

Thanks for the reply Novaguy! I was SURE that I was going to hear about keeping my old heads. I have a good friend/machinist who will do everything to my heads for 300 bucks. i looked into aftermarket heads all over the internet, they run 3-4 times more than having my old ones redone, but it's dually noted that new heads would be superior to the old ones I've got now graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by TJS69:
I don't think you'll reach 375 HP with that combo. I dont either. Not without replacing at least the heads.....and then your still limited by the camshaft at that CID.

If you keep the heads, think other camshaft.

Well, looks like I've made the decision to buy new heads, now, iron, aluminum? Anybody have a combo in their 327 that runs ~375 h.p.?

Thanks-Dan graemlins/beers.gif

Well, you can take a look at the current iron v. aluminum debate thread if you like... but it'll be a long read! :D

Well, I've seen a few builds using that XE268 cam, edelbrock rpm intake, around 9.5:1 compression, and a number of heads and make 375 horses. Look for a head with an intake runner in the 170-190cc range. I personally like the looks of the Pro Topline 180cc head (that's what I run) and the AFR 180cc head will get you to your goal as well.

Good luck.

dan, yep the pro toplines as boodlefoof said are great heads, esp for the dollar. thats what i run, but aluminum 220's, i think i wouldn't go that big with a 327 ;) . i like the idea of some 180's as well. hey, not sure about when you are going to do this, but i may be able to hook you up with some used heads, some of my racing buddies are like parts stores, they keep the darnedest stuff around. you just never know what you'll find from time to time. unfortunately small block stuff isn't as plentiful with my friends, most run big blocks. good luck with that bad boy graemlins/thumbsup.gif
and oh yeah, just avoid that thread about aluminum v. cast iron :rolleyes:

Chevy Hi performance built a 400 HP 327:

www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/93578/index.html (http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/techarticles/93578/index.html)

They ran it with a Hyd Roller setup and with modified 461 heads, so I think if you went with better heads and forgoed the HR setup (maybe a solid flat tappet), you will probably hit the 375hp mark easily. Ive messed around a lot with Desktop dyno and solid cams on a 327, and it has retured 440+ HP numbers on a streetable solid cam.


I am in the process of a mild buildup on my own 327, but it will probably make less than 375. Ill post track times when I get it out there to let you know.

Wonder why pdq67 hasn't popped in and given us his opinion. He has LOTS to say about building a 327.

I'm baaaccckkk! He, He!!

Yes, don't over head the little bugger b/c the factory hi-po 327's only had like 160 and 170 cc intake ports on them and ran darn good! Imho!! (-461 and -461x double-hump, fuelie style heads).

The problem with building a hi-po 327 today is that you need to compensate for the poor gas quality we have nowadays by backing off on the CR. to like 9.75 to 1 with cast-iron heads and maybe up to about 10.25 to 1 with aluminum heads whereas the bad boys of yesteryear were right at 11 to 11.5 to 1 CR. from the factory but really only like 10.5 and 11 CR. due to sloppy manufacturing stuff!

I personally would drop a 230 to 235 at .050" duration modern solid cam in it and to heck with "balls-out" hp, but rather get as much midrange grunt out of it as possible!!

The little sucker will rpm above 7,000rpm with these small a cams EASY!!!

Something in the range of a 270/272 or even a 275/278 advertised duration solid grind!!

I do know the little old stock, -097 Duntov solid will run fine b/c I ran one in my junk 301 for quite a while!! And it is only like 287/228 and 230, and .38+ lift!! It is the 315hp/283 fuelie cam and the 340hp and 360 hp/327 cam.

I like the old 30-30 cam BUT you need like a good 11 to 1 CR. to really make her run!!!

Carb's are easy b/c the 350hp/327, L-79 motor only had like a 585cfm Holley four barrel on it!!

So anything up to a 750cfm, 3310- series Holley tuned to your motor will be fine as will a good old Q-Jet that is up to snuff!!

Add the Z- intake or a Holley 300-36 or Performer RPM and you are good. They are all great hi-rise style dual planes for torque!!

Also a set of cheap four tube long 1.625" headers and a good 2.25" free flowing exhaust will help too.

Anything above say 3.31's will be fine up to the point you get to gripping about poor gas mileage and a winding engine driving down the road!!

My car had a about 10 to 1CR., .040 over 327 in it when I got it back along with a 600cfm, 1850 Holley and a 300hp/327 AFB cast-iron stock four barrel intake with an adapter, a Little Fireball hy- cam, a set of cheap headers, M-20 four speed and my 3.31's and the guy said he had a 12.9 second time slip from a So. Cal strip!! And it was with a set of small real slicks on it!!

Also heads were stock medium valved, -041's, I think??

Good luck with whatever you do but please don't over do it or the little bugger CAN get real hi-strung real quick!! pdq67

Thanks to all for your replies! Now comes the hard part... ...Plunkin' down the coin to buy the proper stuff! I don't want to race the thing, I just want it to purrrr down the road and occassionally roar when I need it to graemlins/thumbsup.gif

68rs406, suppose I wanted you to check into some heads for me...i can't even get you to hop 1/2 town away to come play on 529.LOL. Are you going to the All Chevy Show next month?

Dan B graemlins/beers.gif

dan i know, i'm bad about finding time. there are really not enough hours in the day. i fully intend on hitting the chevy show, i'd like to come out to pacific and drag race a bit, but i'm not sure if i need to be in the show or what. i like lookin, but not much for showing. especially with my 20/20 paint job :rolleyes: it's my wifes birthday this weekend (friday, but you know how it goes), how about thursday afternoon or something? otherwise, maybe next weekend or ?, we should hook up, we're minutes from each other and scuttlebutt is almost a central location, hmm.. graemlins/beers.gif

68rs406,
I get home from work ~ 3:30ish (you know how traffic on I-5 thru Everett can be) You just tell me when you want to meet up @ Scuuttle and I'll hop down there. They have great food and drinks! Tomorrow evening (6:00?) would probably work out o.k. Just reply if tomorrow @ 6:00 works for you and we'll shoot for it and if one of us can't make it, well, then we got to cruise around by the waterfront in a 1st gen Camaro ;)

Oh and as for the SB heads...If you find a decent set for a fair price, let me know and I'll have a look see graemlins/beers.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif

PPS...There is a show n shine this weekend @ Seaview Chev in lynnwood on hwy99 @ 10:00am this coming Saturday... tongue.gif

pdq67 said it pretty well. A 327 does not like a huge cylinder head or even a large one unless you have much gear and a manual trans. The old 097 might be a little small but stay on the mild side with you set up. I have one in the old Nova with TF twisted wedge heads a 600 Holley 2500 convertor and 3.08s. The thing really suprises me the way it runs and gives absolutely no trouble.

pdq67, glad to have you back.

Now a question about cams. How about recommendation for a hyd. cam in a TH350 and 3.73 rear in a daily driven 327.

dan, 6:00 at scuttlebutt sounds good to me, and like you say, worst case is we cruise the waterfront in a first gen, bummer ;) .thats actually one of my normal routes anyway, a sweet drive. i'm taking the wife to bellevue around 2:30, but i should make it back in plenty of time, so hopefully see you there graemlins/thumbsup.gif
p.s. dan, you have mail, hopefully graemlins/clonk.gif

[ 07-16-2003, 11:52 PM: Message edited by: 68rs406 ]

CFunk,

I bet I can guess what Pdq will say about that cam advice. The old Crane Fireball 266!!! :D

graemlins/beers.gif

I know I'm a little late chiming in on this one, but here's my 2 cents. 375 HP a LOT to expect from a daily driver 327.

We built a 327 that runs 12.7's @ 104 in a friend's 69 Camaro (probably right about 375HP) here's the parts list (and what I would do different if it were my car)

block bored .060 (had to, its an old block)
Stock crank & rods, balanced, ARP bolts
Speed Pro .120" dome pistons (10.3:1 compression)
Comp Cams 282s cam (solid FT cam but will run forever between lashes and makes good TQ and HP)
aluminum ProTopline 64cc chamber, 200cc intake runners (I would go with 180cc runners)
Victor Jr intake w/ 1" open spacer (I would go with the RPM on this combo for a daily driver)
Holley 650 double pumper carb (I would go with a 650-700 cfm vac secondary carb for a driver or Q-jet)

The engine idles at 800 RPM in gear with a little lope, but is pretty tame. He has a fairly radical stall (rated 4500, but actually stalls at about 4000) and a 4.11 gear. A 3000 stall and mid 3.xx gear would work fine too. OR to make it a little milder yet a slightly smaller cam would do the trick with less stall and gear yet.

Hope this helps.

ps. and when comparing the 282s to a hydraulic grind remember that at the valve this solid cam is more like 276* advertised, 230* @ .050 lift.

Well, I finally met up with 68rs406!!! We had a great time showing off our cars on the waterfront!
My hamsters got tired tryin to keep up with that 406 tongue.gif

Thanks to all for your help/advice smile.gif I guess I'll run it like it is for now, but next winter...lookout :cool: New 180cc heads, solid ft
cam and some headers ought to help out my "need for speed" graemlins/thumbsup.gif
If I ever learn how to post pics to this site...I'll post some periodically (and ask a bunch more questions!)

mrDan graemlins/beers.gif

dan, it was nice finally meeting you and the wife, dig your camaro, it looks going motoring down the road graemlins/thumbsup.gif we'll have to meet up again sometime, the scuttlebutt was good! graemlins/beers.gif anyway, talk to you later, and i'll keep my eye out for some good speed parts for that 327 graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Eric's got a good hi-po combination there but I am still going to stick with the stock, 160/170 cc heads just because I'm that kinda guy...

And yes, I would run modern heads if I was making one and had the extra cash......Just not much bigger heads, that's all....

And Boodle is right in there with the Crane cam for a really good average street motor!! Go with from the 266/210 up to the 274/218 cam and no bigger!! FOR A STREET MOTOR!!!

But I like the singing of solids so the CC 282S falls right in here..

pdq67