I'm gonna be building a small block,it is a 350 4bolt main.I'd like to get between 400-450hp out of it.Can anyone tell me what cam/heads/intake etc and the specs on these in order to achieve optimum results? Can someone steer me in the right direction.I'm am trying to figure this out ASAP cuz I'm gonna be 4 linking my car and getting a 12bolt posi.

Through my experiences with mine recently I would suggest a solid lifter cam, the guys
In here could suggest a good one. This will allow you to rev well into the power band. Also some good flowing heads are a must. I always learn the hard way and am bound and determine to get mine into the 12s without these things but they will certainly help.

450hp is not hard to get out of a 350 it just depends on how much money you want to put into it, and if you want to keep "streetable".

i'm putting together a 400+ hp street engine togehter and with the help i've found from others from this site it shouldn't be to expensive either.

i started with a 350 block bored .030 over and placed trickflow heads with a edelbrock RPM intake (the best for the street i'm told) and a holley 650dp. i haven't decided on a cam yet but there are several that will work with each combo you make.

CamaroNOTCamero dynoed this combo somewhere around 419hp with like 421tq i think.

i wouldn't rush into these decisions "ASAP" i'd look around for more ideas in magazines, books and this site. the people here give an endless supply of knowledge to your fingertips you just have to ask and be patient.

good luck

That would be a good amount of HP for my car. Are trickflow aluminum heads better then the edelbrock performer RPM heads? I'm trying to find the right cam,to match that stuff,and perform best.Just want to be careful not to go too big and end up losing power.

figuring it out ASAP is wrong IMO. you end up overlooking important things.
Sometimes i think we overthink things though.

whats your budget?

there's a few ways you can go about doing this, what i'm planning on doing is with a 355 would be a 282S solid cam (236 dur. .495" lift) Trick Flow heads (195cc) 10.2:1 compression Wiseco pistons, Eagle rods, Victor Jr. Intake with 1" added. Ontop of this i'm going to put a 650 Vacuum sec. Speed demon. Gonna use Gold Race roller rockers, Trick Flow pushrods, Moroso 2-peice stud Girdle, and last 1-5/8" ceramic coated tube headers. DD2k claims it'll be pushing about 458HP at 6000rpms, if it's in the area of 420HP i'll be more then happy.
I might go for a 383 also, depends on the kinda deals i can find.

My Brother is also building an engine for similar HP, but he's going to use a hydrualic roller cam. He's money bags over here, so he's gonna give it a shot, its a bit expensive, but i think he'll like it. He's building his to have massive down low torque, so he's building a 385ci, and using a 224 duration cam in it. The rollers should also make some good torque, while keeping in the range of 400hp. He's also going to use AFR 190's and an edelbrock dual plane intake (the performer, but gonna put on a spacer) He's got a Road demon carb that he will use on it.

The shop he works at has an engine dyno and all the machines you can think up, so we're gonna put our idea's to practice. The owner is one of the nicest guys we know, and he's been an engine builder since the late 60's. He's even had a few engines of his own in Hot Rod and similar magazines. He really knows his stuff. He basically lets my brother use anything he wants as long as he doesnt put himself in danger.
We're gonna put these two engines on the dyno and see what really makes the differences there, and what is just BS. The builder says DD2k is usually high, but we're gonna compaire actual dyno pulls to dd2k, compare RPM ranges and such.

My plan is to basically build a hi-po street engine and say to those who're looking for a combo that works, that "Hey this is tried and true". We'll see.

Well,CNC I think I'm gonna have between $1500-$2000 to spend,probably more towards $2000.I have a GM crate 350,it is just the target motor though w/ like 215hp. I figured I'd bore it .30 over,get the Trick Flow 23* aluminum heads,Performer RPM intake,roller rockers, and hopefully a roller cam too.Do you think I should go ahead and put the other parts on excluding the cam after my motor is bored out? and put my cam in as soon as I get a chance to yank the motor? Or do it all at once?

You could install the trick flow heads and everything else, but it'll be miss matched that way.

I say wait and do the whole thing at once, save yourself alot of time that way.
Make good friends with your machinist, some of the roller cam stuff is tricky, and you need alot of different peices for it.

what type of pistons and bottom end peices are you buying?

oh to answer your question, Trick Flow heads are better then RPM heads, and less expensive too.

Keep the cam in the area of 224-230 duration and you'll be happy.
Remember its TQ you want, HP is just something you use to brag with your friends.

I think I'll wait and put do everything at once so it will all be matched up. I think I might go with a Crane Xtreme Energy camshaft,do you think I'll need to do anything to the bottom end in order to be able to make these changes to my motor?

forgot to ask what's the difference between the trick flow twisted wedge,and the trick flow 23degree heads,the twisted wedge were like $100 more

C.N.C., I was wondering what model of Crane cam would be best for this setup,they have a quite a few different ones,I know you said between 224-230 duration.

Sig check. http://www.camaros.net/forum/wink.gif

My cam is the 284h12 Energizer. I like it. Nice lope @ 750rpm. 228* duration @ .050", .480" lift. Single pattern. I think it's a 110 or 112 lsa, can't remember at the moment. Very similar to the ever popular XE268 from Comp, except the Energizer cam/lifter kits can be had for under $100.

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79' Z28 4-spd- built 355, TRW 10:1 forged flat tops, WP SportsmanII heads, Crane Energizer 230/230 duration .480"/.480" lift, Edelbrock Victor Jr., Holley 750cfm, Dynomax headers, dual 3" flowmasters :) 3.73 Posi 10-bolt

Hello all, my first post here....
This site may give some help:
http://www.ryanscarpage.50megs.com/combos1.html

It's a little dated...not much on the GM Fast Burns (my favorite)


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SARA Late Model Racer

Hey Guys,
for those of us who are running hydrailic rollers, what do you this about the RPM limitation that occurs from the heavy lifter design?
How much spring pressures are you guys running?
Secondly, they say if you run enough spring to control these heavy lifters then youll bleed down the plungers.
AFR says the have the solution with the hydra-rev kit, has anyone tried it?

Comp Cams makes the extreme energy line.

I think you should put in hypereutectic pistons at least, since your boring the engine out you'll need new pistons anyway.
Other then that you'll need to have the rods bushed if you use floating pins in the pistons. The bottom end should be fine otherwise.
You should definetly talk to your machinist about this, and see what he recommends doing.

Trick Flow is discontinuing the twisted wedge, so just go for the 23 degree heads.

About the cam, I dont know much of crane's inventory, but i'd recommend a comp 270H (magnum hydrualic) 270S (magnum solid) or 280HR (magnum hydrualic roller). Depends on what you want, hydrualics are low maintainence, solids require maintainence, and they're noisier, hydrualic rollers require expensive cam/lifters and a good bit of experience in this before you can tackle that job.

Thanks for the info 89rs383,I'm trying to do as much research as I can to get a good set up for my motor.Thanks.

To answer the hydraulic roller question - I don't see a problem with ONLY being able to rev your engine to 6,000 RPMs. If you build a true STREET motor, it's going to run out of steam at that point anyway.

I thought about the AFR Hyra-Rev kit, but my engine didn't have the massive decrease in power that they show in the graphs in their catalog. I'm also using the same cam as they used in one of their tests. I'm also using the GM "orange" valvespring - same on as used on late 80/early 90s Corvette aluminum heads and good up to .510 lift.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CamaroNOTcamero:
figuring it out ASAP is wrong IMO. you end up overlooking important things.
Sometimes i think we overthink things though.

whats your budget?

there's a few ways you can go about doing this, what i'm planning on doing is with a 355 would be a 282S solid cam (236 dur. .495" lift) Trick Flow heads (195cc) 10.2:1 compression Wiseco pistons, Eagle rods, Victor Jr. Intake with 1" added. Ontop of this i'm going to put a 650 Vacuum sec. Speed demon. Gonna use Gold Race roller rockers, Trick Flow pushrods, Moroso 2-peice stud Girdle, and last 1-5/8" ceramic coated tube headers. DD2k claims it'll be pushing about 458HP at 6000rpms, if it's in the area of 420HP i'll be more then happy.
I might go for a 383 also, depends on the kinda deals i can find.

My Brother is also building an engine for similar HP, but he's going to use a hydrualic roller cam. He's money bags over here, so he's gonna give it a shot, its a bit expensive, but i think he'll like it. He's building his to have massive down low torque, so he's building a 385ci, and using a 224 duration cam in it. The rollers should also make some good torque, while keeping in the range of 400hp. He's also going to use AFR 190's and an edelbrock dual plane intake (the performer, but gonna put on a spacer) He's got a Road demon carb that he will use on it.

The shop he works at has an engine dyno and all the machines you can think up, so we're gonna put our idea's to practice. The owner is one of the nicest guys we know, and he's been an engine builder since the late 60's. He's even had a few engines of his own in Hot Rod and similar magazines. He really knows his stuff. He basically lets my brother use anything he wants as long as he doesnt put himself in danger.
We're gonna put these two engines on the dyno and see what really makes the differences there, and what is just BS. The builder says DD2k is usually high, but we're gonna compaire actual dyno pulls to dd2k, compare RPM ranges and such.

My plan is to basically build a hi-po street engine and say to those who're looking for a combo that works, that "Hey this is tried and true". We'll see.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is my combo. 350 .60 over, TFS heads, 10.25 cr, CC 270 HR 218-224 @.50 + 1.6 rrs. Air gap rpm w/Demon 750 vs, Stk ex w/duals "2 1/4 w/dents". To finish it off, Arp bolts, pocket porting, match intake, backcut valves, .041 quench. This is for me perfect. Power from idle to too fast. No surge of cam just torque all the way. Combo w/headers would be 450 Tq & 425 Hp both at reasonable rpms plus good mpg. I hope to join the 12 sec 20 mpg club!

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74 Corvette Grand Tourer

450HP is kind of pushing it for a street 350 especially on a $2K budget IMO. If you must have 450 HP why not build it a little more conservative (like a 230* @ .050 cam, 10.5:1 compression, Trick Flow or Canfield 195 heads).

This will make around 400 HP - but if you build it with forged pistons you could put another 100 HP of juice to it. Just add a small NOS kit to it later when you have the money. The juice might be a little hard on the stock crank and rods but it should hold up fine for the occaisional 1/4 mile blast.

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68 Camaro, 383 small block with TH350 trans. 11.98's at 111mph and never trailered.

Eric68,
I have been toying with the idea to pull my 383 and 'freshing' it up. New bearing,rings and stuff, and was wondering if a solid cam would be better for my 383. If so, what would you reccommend?
I use this is a daily driver, and compression and detonation are my worries. And I hear with todays grinds, the solids are not so 'user un-friendly' by having to set valves all the time.
Also, if I change the cam/lifters to a solid, do I need to change springs as well?
Thoughts on to help my bottom end?
Thanks in advance.

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383 Speed-O-Motive stroker kit with Holley 750DP, RPM intake,MSD6a box,World Products Sportsman II heads, ported and polished with 2.02/1.60 valves,64cc,TRW forged pistons with 10.7:1 compression, Comp Xtreme 284 cam,Crane pushrods, Comp Cam 1.6 full roller rockers,ATI damper, 40 series Flowmasters, 4.11 gears with TH350 and Hughes 3000 stall.

Your correct, todays solids with a good valvetrain are user friendly.
You'd like a shorter duration solid cam, alot more then the 284xe you have in there. The springs, if still in good shape should be fine. It's the lift at the valve that detiremines which spring to use, not the lifter type.
If you have a high performance valve train, like nice roller rockers, good pushrods, and posi lock nuts then you wont have to adjust the lash much.
There's also tools you can buy which make adjusting lash a quick job.
You do have Alot of compression with iron heads, so that would be a big concern of mine also. Although i would perfer a 282S solid (236 duration, .495" lift) you'd probably be safer with a 294S (248 duration .525" lift) these cams will loose about 4-6 degrees duration becuase of lash, also.

Are you absolutely sure thats your compression? most manufacturers of pistons, love to push up the adv. comp. ratio alot, so they use a deck height of 8.99"-9" deck height, instead of standard height. most people dont cut .035" off there block, it makes for less compression.
They also use a very small gasket, like .39" of even less.
the companies arent concerned with quench height, only with how there advertisments look.

[This message has been edited by CamaroNOTcamero (edited 04-01-2002).]

Here you go. I say that if you want power on the street use compression. It is one of the cheapest ways of making horsepower. So what could you do. Most good engines will produce a 1.1 hp if they are built right. Heres the icker is you can make them a lot more. Sure the performer RPM is a good intake. Intake is very important for a motor, but only goes from idle to 5,500. You don't want a to big of cam. I am not going to tell you what I recommend because that all depends on the transmission (manual or automatic), weight of the car and the final gears. I laughed at that whole mismatched thing. I recommend aluminum heads. That way you can take it up a point on compression and still keep it streetable with additives. Get some AFR aluminum heads or some 2.02 aluminum sportsman or something along that lines. A good match head with a bad cam is better than an optimum cam with a bad head. Have the heads pocket ported (nothing to extreme)and the valves milled. Your in business. Now another important thing to consider is headers. They have to be matched with the HP otherwise you lose to much torue. I recommend a air gap intake good from 1,500-6,500. You do that and a smaller carb like a 650 and you are in the money. As for the 383, those really don't help you with HP just torque and man is torque good on the street for getting you stop light to stop light. Good luck, but do research and don't just go by what adds say or what people say worked for them. Every motor is built differently. Good luck again,I hope I could be of some help.

Luke,

Build for torque, lose the weight.

Good heads, good cam, good t/conv, if auto, good manual trans w/the correct ratios, and good rear gear.

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Everett 68/350/PG/11.90/115mph

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CamaroNOTcamero:
Your correct, todays solids with a good valvetrain are user friendly.
You'd like a shorter duration solid cam, alot more then the 284xe you have in there. The springs, if still in good shape should be fine. It's the lift at the valve that detiremines which spring to use, not the lifter type.
If you have a high performance valve train, like nice roller rockers, good pushrods, and posi lock nuts then you wont have to adjust the lash much.
There's also tools you can buy which make adjusting lash a quick job.
You do have Alot of compression with iron heads, so that would be a big concern of mine also. Although i would perfer a 282S solid (236 duration, .495" lift) you'd probably be safer with a 294S (248 duration .525" lift) these cams will loose about 4-6 degrees duration becuase of lash, also.

Are you absolutely sure thats your compression? most manufacturers of pistons, love to push up the adv. comp. ratio alot, so they use a deck height of 8.99"-9" deck height, instead of standard height. most people dont cut .035" off there block, it makes for less compression.
They also use a very small gasket, like .39" of even less.
the companies arent concerned with quench height, only with how there advertisments look.

[This message has been edited by CamaroNOTcamero (edited 04-01-2002).]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks! Yea, I have the Comp Cam springs,locks and retainers. And the heads were just totally redone, so the spring heights were just set as well.
I have good Crane roller 1.6 rockers and the 'good' $130 pushrods.
And from I heard from the shop, these TRW's were going to be 10.7:1 on a 64cc head. The heads were shaved a tad or actually re-surfaced to be true when they were rebuilt. And I am using the Fel-Pro 1003 head gaskets,.041" thickness.
So not sure of 'true' compression. But I don't want to get near detonation..
The cam I have now, the XE284 is like 284/292 adv and 240/244@.050 and with the 1.6 rockers, .540/.544 lift....so I would see an improvement worth the added expense?

Thanks so much for the help!

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383 Speed-O-Motive stroker kit with Holley 750DP, RPM intake,MSD6a box,World Products Sportsman II heads, ported and polished with 2.02/1.60 valves,64cc,TRW forged pistons with 10.7:1 compression, Comp Xtreme 284 cam,Crane pushrods, Comp Cam 1.6 full roller rockers,ATI damper, 40 series Flowmasters, 4.11 gears with TH350 and Hughes 3000 stall.

Tracy,

I run the Comp solid 282s in my car but it's a weekend driver - not a daily driver. If you don't mind checking/setting your valve lash when you change the oil, a solid would be fine IMO. I was kind of suprised to see you running the XE284 in a daily driver - that's pretty big for a driver and probably gets horrid gas mileage LOL.

With 10.7:1 compression you will want to be very careful with your cam selection. Smaller would help build some awesome torque but would also increase cylinder pressure (and increase risk of detonation). With the XE284 cam you have now your dynamic compression ratio is 8.4:1. With the Comp Cams 282s like I'm running it bumps up to 8.5:1. 8.5:1 is about the max I feel comfortable with. My point is this - a smaller cam WILL help low and midrange performance but if you go smaller than 280* advertised (around 230* @ .050) you run the risk of detonation.

As for valve springs - the Comp XE284 uses a dual spring with 120# of seat pressure. The comp 282s uses a single spring with dampener and 110# of seat pressure. Call Comp Cams to ask what spring they recommend running with "X cam" and 1.6 rockers - if you are going to freshen up your engine you might as well install the right springs for your cam. Don't forget to make sure any new spring is installed at the correct height - this will greatly affect seat pressure. Single springs are often installed at a lower height (like 1.72") while dual springs are often installed with more height (like 1.80").

Hope this helps.

[This message has been edited by Eric68 (edited 04-02-2002).]

Check http://www.aros.net/~rbuck/chp/ for how to make over 400 hp starting with targetmaster (Goodwrench pre 86 350 a.k.a. LM1) engine.

Just to make sure, be certain to check all clearances when you switch cams, check to see if the springs bind. the springs required for the 282S arent very expensive, but breaking something becuase they "might" work is expensive, so do your homework. I might be wrong about being able to use those springs with this cam.

Awesome. Thanks for all the info...that's why I had to end up with the XE284, to get rid of some cylinder pressure...I wanted the XE274, but worried about it.
But with this combo in a truck, if I had anymore torque down low, I'd never get anywhere. http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

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383 Speed-O-Motive stroker kit with Holley 750DP, RPM intake,MSD6a box,World Products Sportsman II heads, ported and polished with 2.02/1.60 valves,64cc,TRW forged pistons with 10.7:1 compression, Comp Xtreme 284 cam,Crane pushrods, Comp Cam 1.6 full roller rockers,ATI damper, 40 series Flowmasters, 4.11 gears with TH350 and Hughes 3000 stall.

Tracy,

If you have the gears and converter for it - your engine might like a bigger mechanical cam. The Comp 294s would kill little TQ down low but that engine would really come alive up top. You'd need a bottom end that's solid through 6500 RPM though and probably a single plane intake to get the most out of it.

There are also some other solid grinds besides the Comp Cams ones that fit "between" the Comp 282s and the 294s that would work nice for you.

Just a thought.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Eric68:
Tracy,

If you have the gears and converter for it - your engine might like a bigger mechanical cam. The Comp 294s would kill little TQ down low but that engine would really come alive up top. You'd need a bottom end that's solid through 6500 RPM though and probably a single plane intake to get the most out of it.

There are also some other solid grinds besides the Comp Cams ones that fit "between" the Comp 282s and the 294s that would work nice for you.

Just a thought.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

may have to save the cash now....got a call from a friend (indeed) that has a complete 454 minus the crank for $100!
So I am buying it, and going to do the 6 month slow build on it....so the 383 may have to fall on the back-burner for awhile...but a solid does sound like fun. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

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383 Speed-O-Motive stroker kit with Holley 750DP, RPM intake,MSD6a box,World Products Sportsman II heads, ported and polished with 2.02/1.60 valves,64cc,TRW forged pistons with 10.7:1 compression, Comp Xtreme 284 cam,Crane pushrods, Comp Cam 1.6 full roller rockers,ATI damper, 40 series Flowmasters, 4.11 gears with TH350 and Hughes 3000 stall.

Ask yourself the question: How much power can I really use and at what rpm will I use it? I think if you are honest you'll find that 400 hp and 400+ tq are about the limit on city streets. How often will your engine see peak rpm? I called the tech at Comp Cams, it was a good idea. I was prepared to go smaller, but the 270 HR built the most tq, and thats what I wanted. Be honest and think about a 6" rod to help w/comp. I'm very happy w/mine, wouldn't change anything except exhaust and that is coming.

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74 Corvette Grand Tourer