Over the last couple months there has been a 69 375 hp Pace car on Ebay. The first time listed it was in a group of four cars. The last time listed it was by itself. I know the high bidder this last time. He went to see the car and found numerous things wrong with it, a big one being that it was not orig. a dual exhaust car. So if you are going to Missouri to look at a frame off #'s matching 375 hp Pace Car, check in here first and I will try to put you in touch with the fellow that looked at it. He got the impression that the owner was not aware of any problems.

Clill, if it was not originally a dual exhaust car, how could it originally be a pace car? All real pace cars were RS/SS and would have had factory dual exhaust. So it's a fake pace car too besides not being a 375 hp car?

Clill,I knew of a pace car in Missouri,that had a big block,and a solid lifter tach.It was a 4-speed.No decals,older restoration.The thing I remember most is it had a bead of clear silicone on the steering wheel.(looked stupid on a nice car).Seemed like the door panels were a just a little shabby.If thats the same one I have a flywheel and trans that came out of it once.Sound like the same car? Longshot I know.Just curious.

70RSS, You got it. There has been at least one real Z28 without that left side plate though. The last straw was when the owner would not let him remove the cowl panel to check the Vin #. Boomhouse, Not sure if it is the same Missouri Pace car .

Where around here was the car? There is a classic dealer in Missouri that is as shady as they come. He is known to build cars. I wonder if it came from him?

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'69 RS SS 396 375hp L78 Convertible, M22, 3.31 posi, deluxe interior, gauges, rosewood wheel, AM-FM,fold down seat, tilt wheel, SS wheels, console mounted 8 track player, chambered exhaust

According to Bill Glowacki,a very knowledgable authority on camaros.Convertables did not recieve the left side tail pipe adapter plate.This is from a post from Sept 20,1999 on the Camaro Untold Secrets/Camaro Institute board.The post was titled "Any last minute advice".The person was going to look at a 69 SS 396 convertable.Just thought Id pass this on.

Clill, I remember you sold a 396/375 NOM buildsheet documented '69 convertible not too long ago. Did your car have the plate?

I don't remember, but the guy that bought it is the same guy that went to look at the Pace. Good idea. I will ask him to check it.

The convert. that he has doesn't have the plate either.

Now the question is, how come convertibles don't have the plate? What did they do instead?

Perhaps the convertible SS cars did not come with the plate. Nonetheless, the Pacer sounds like a shady deal if the seller did would not let the buyer verify the VIN's stamped throughout the car matched each other. Sounds like the buyer was very serious about the car.

Boomhauer I completely forgot that was me that posted the "Any last minute advice" post. I was looking at an X66 Daytona Yellow convertible in Tennessee. It didn't have the adapter plate either. I still don't see why the seller wouldn't let a potential buyer check the hidden VIN.

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'69 RS SS 396 375hp L78 Convertible, M22, 3.31 posi, deluxe interior, gauges, rosewood wheel, AM-FM,fold down seat, tilt wheel, SS wheels, console mounted 8 track player, chambered exhaust

All, I have a regular convert with dual exhaust which does not have the plate. I think the reason for it is that the convert uses a thicker gauge metal for the rails, so the plate is not necessary. This is the same for the seat belt mounts in the rocker panels. The coupe has special plate with the nut welded in, but the convert just has the nut welded on (thicker metal to support nut). Just my .02 Kevin

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69' SS-350 ragtop, M20, 3.55 posi. Totally Disassembled & in boxes (I am working on it!)

Thats interesting about the thicker metal, maybe thats it. I did know about the thicker rockers but not about the frame rails. As far as taking off the cowl panel to check the vin: If the car needed restoration I would care less and just take the panel off to show people that were interested if I had it for sale. If the car was mint I would be much more reluctant. Pulling off the wiper arms can scratch the paint and just taking if off in general can create scratches. By time the fifth person asked me I would have had enough. If the person was totally serious and it was make or break depending on the vin number then no doubt it would come off. Its like all the people that want to take it for a ride. Sure if you have the money and are serious then you can do what you want. If your just curious and want to see the number or go for a ride then no way. Either I would take it off and leave it off until sold or take a picture or something. But it wouldn't come off for everyone that asked

Forgot to add, on about 7 out of 10 cars I can see the vin through the grills, no need to pull off the whole panel

I guarantee I wouldnt let ANYONE,not even Bill Gates take my car apart to look for numbers.I would think if its billed as a #s matching,restored car, everything should be clean enough you could find out most of what you need to know with a flashlight,mirror,and reference book.If it all comes down to removing the cowl screen,or heater box to check the VIN to seal the deal.I say the prospective buyer should make a deal where the buyer pays in full and if the VIN #s are wrong he gets his money back right there on the spot.You can remove stuff just as easy after you pay for it as you can before.(only you will be more careful about it if you pay first).The guy with the pacer isnt the only guy in Missouri that would turn away a stranger with a tool kit in his hand.Theres at least two of us. Just my opinion.

Check this site http://www.camaros.org/diffs69.shtml for the answer of the dual exhaust plate, number 16. I have a 69 conv with duals and it has no plate.

Hey Clill , where is this car in missouri. I almost bought one 14 years ago in waynesville and it was a true pacecar it was just wore out. I know of another about 20 miles from me sitting under a carport and not for sale I've tried many a times to buy it! sad thing about it the owner flaired the qtrs and put a chrome rollbar in years ago, and now it just sits!

[This message has been edited by molaker (edited 07-26-2000).]

Number 16 says that the conv didn't need the reinforcement due to the heavier guage frame rail. But it doesn't say it didn't need the hanger. Maybe I am just reading it wrong. Where is Kurt when you need him. Is he ok or on vacation? Haven't seen any posts from him lately

Hey y'all, I'm from Missouri and fairly new to all this. I'd like to know who/where these shady guys/dealers are around here. I have some suspicians. You can email if you'd rather not point fingers on this forum.

It was a private party and I don't think it was meant to be shady.

68SS396, I dont have a factory dual convertible,but Id think the left hanger would be mounted the same as the right hanger.To the frame rail, with no plate.

So if it had duals there would have to be something, holes or bracket, on the left frame rail, correct? What do the holes or whatever look like on a factory dual convertible? Anyone post a picture? Curious as to what a factory dual conv looks like in this area

That's how mine is but I don't have documentation. There seem to be a lot of Pace Cars around here. Or there are just a lot of Pace Cars still around.

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'69 RS SS 396 375hp L78 Convertible, M22, 3.31 posi, deluxe interior, gauges, rosewood wheel, AM-FM,fold down seat, tilt wheel, SS wheels, console mounted 8 track player, chambered exhaust

Ok Boomhauer, after reading your post again and really thinking about it, I understand. It all makes sense now. You learn something new everyday. Almost