Looking at a nice 69 Z for purchase. It's an X33 car with std interior, added console and zl2 hood. Everything looks ok, 'cept we cannot get the vin code off the side of the engine. The date code on top looks good, shows 1/69 prod date, trim tag show 2/69 build date. #s on side of motor just aren't readable...we tried paint stripper, wire brush, etc. #s too tiny and thin. I like the car a lot, but how can I verify that this is a matching numbers car? What's a clean Z28 with added ZL2, console and gauges, am/fm x33 worth if we cannot match the #s? Car is in good shape, 'cept laquer repaint starting to crack.

Thanks and Help

HELP!

Most of the VIN stamps on the side of the block are illegible. A friend has a '69 L89 short block on an engine stand, still cannot read it.

Chances are you will be unable to verify the engine is original. If it checks out otherwise - casting numbers/dates and the final assembly date appear correct I wouldn't be concerned. Many of the COPOs selling for record prices do not have original engines.

Check out the carb & alternator also. DZ carbs and 837 alts are getting big prices lately.

Trans & axle check out?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by William:
Most of the VIN stamps on the side of the block are illegible. A friend has a '69 L89 short block on an engine stand, still cannot read it.

Chances are you will be unable to verify the engine is original. If it checks out otherwise - casting numbers/dates and the final assembly date appear correct I wouldn't be concerned. Many of the COPOs selling for record prices do not have original engines.

Check out the carb & alternator also. DZ carbs and 837 alts are getting big prices lately.

Trans & axle check out?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If the car was assembled in Feb '69, what is the correct date code for the block? Also, should I be paying good $ for a car with no docs, undetermined engine match? Even though the trim tag says "X33" and the car appears correct, doesn't the inability to verify the engine match lower the value of this car?

The easier way is to post the #'s off of the car and we'll see what they look like and can compare them to other cars.



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Kurt S.
CRG www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

Try applying some white paint to the oil filter boss area where the VIN is and wipe it away with a rag which should leave some paint in the stamped impression. That might make it easier to read. I remember looking at a 69 Z28 that had a DZ engine in it but the code on the engine didn't match the protect-o-plate date. So I got under the car to check the VIN and all I could find was the 19N and no more than that. They were easy to read also. It makes me wonder if they prestamped the 19N and just filled in the 6 digits later.

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Jeff H - 93 Indy 500 Pace Car(supercharged) & driven daily, Hugger Orange 69 Z28 with JL8 brakes, cross-ram & GM fiberglass hood, TI setup, heater and radio delete, being restored

It is difficult to place a value on documentation. To some people it is important, others don't care. It does provide assurance that the car in question was an original. But it does not provide assurance that it is still original. Check out the "before" photos of the '68 Yenko through the Supercar site and you'll see what I mean. I think it is important for hi-end stuff like COPOs and JL8 cars that could be profitably "created", less so for a Z/28 which may cost more to build than they are worth.

And remember that a protect-o-plate is the ticket to a "matching-numbers" drivetrain.

Personally I would not pass up a Z/28 that I had satisfied myself was a nice original for lack of paperwork. Of the 3 '69s I've owned, none had any.

If they'll let you pull the backseat, you can verify its an X-33 coded car. It will have X-3 or X3 written in the top right corner bulkhead, possibly under the vinyl trunk/passenger divider.
The true X33 cars are getting very rare..I wouldn't pass it up.

Merch120, where did you come up with that information? I'm not saying it isn't true, I've just saying I've never heard anything like it??????

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John D. Smith
69 SS/396 CLONE!
The Texas Tornado lives!

North Texas Camaro Club (http://www.northtxcamaros.com)

Hobbystage Free Picture Posting!!! http://hobbystage.net/camaro/69ss396/

That's true for some cars, my COPO has an x1 in that location and is an x11 car. My brothers SS 396 is an x22 and it doesn't have it. Wes

According to Jerry McNeish, all X-33 Norwood cars he's seen have that written in the RH rear bulkhead. I just uncovered mine today....

mine had X3 on the bulkhead. If you can't read the #s then nobody else can too. Guess it all depends on what the car is selling for. If the price is right number marching doesn't matter any way.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurt S:
The easier way is to post the #'s off of the car and we'll see what they look like and can compare them to other cars.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Here is what I got off the car:

ST 6912437 NOR234329BDY
TR 711 79 79 PNT
02A X33

VIN is 124379N590727

engine date code is V0128DZ

Car is a 69 Z28 X33 in rally green Unfortunately the vin code on the side of the block is unreadable.

Any help here is appreciated.

Just a reminder that they did put engines in different cars with different VIN stamps from the factory. Engine VIN's are not the only thing to look for. You need to examine ALL the casting numbers and ALL the date codes on the drive train. That is why it makes it so hard without paper work of some kind.
You will have a good start by posting all the numbers you can. LOL

That engine date is exactly where it should be.
And the X code says it's a Z. If the trans is a M21 or M22, that also confirms Z.

So the #'s look fine (though I'd confirm the trans and axle #'s).
Did you try the white paint technique?

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Kurt S.
CRG www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

I have a 02A Z28 built in LA with engine code V0128DZ, same date. That was a good day at Flint!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurt S:
That engine date is exactly where it should be.
And the X code says it's a Z. If the trans is a M21 or M22, that also confirms Z.

So the #'s look fine (though I'd confirm the trans and axle #'s).
Did you try the white paint technique?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, the tranny is an M20, not an M21 or M22. The suffix on the tranny number (which I don't have with me now) is "A"