Hi guys,looking for some expert opinions on ebay item 2479006503.Look at original bill of sale where vin#are.Do the last six look out of place and do they look like a different kind of print.Also,look at broadcast sheet,is this from this car.looks like it has a different VIN # on it.I know its canadian built and I could get documents from them,so why would one use other documents and change them,or maybe I'm wrong and the documents pictured are correct.Appreciate any help and thanks in advance.

Window sticker is a fake/reproduction.

Funny how everyone is a an expert. How do you know it is fake Kurt. I for one would like an explanation as to how you can tell as I have seen real ones that look typed out as well and do not have the last 6 digits stamped.

If I was a so called expert I would be suggesting to the person that posted this that they should call George Zappora in Vintage Services if they really wanted to know if it is real or not. Thats the only true way to tell.

As for the last six digits being another font Biwig, that is the way they were originally produced. I have at least 3 or 4 real window stickers collected from Canadian sold cars and they all look alike but were obviously done on different typewriters as no two appear the exact same. None appear to be fake and most came with GM documentation that supported the window stickers. I have had 2 of them since at least the early 90's.

Just my 2 bits worth.

It all looks original to me. Look at the tape on there, thats many years old in and of itself.

I don't see a Bill of Sale anywhere?

One clue should be that the RPO list only has 3 characters. Real (from the factory) window stickers have 6 character codes. Not to say the dealer didn't type up a new sticker if the car was used, or a demonstrator and the original was lost before being sold to the "first owner".

Your not going to get anything from George Zapora, since the car wans't sold new in Canada. Kingston NY is about 75 miles north of NY City on the west side of the Hudson river. George works for GM Canada, and those are the only cars the vintage services group have records for. Don't think they have records for the Oshawa built cars sold in the US.

Originally posted by hugger_sixty_nine:
Funny how everyone is a an expert. How do you know it is fake Kurt. I for one would like an explanation as to how you can tell as I have seen real ones that look typed out as well and do not have the last 6 digits stamped.

If I was a so called expert I would be suggesting to the person that posted this that they should call George Zappora in Vintage Services if they really wanted to know if it is real or not. Thats the only true way to tell.

As for the last six digits being another font Biwig, that is the way they were originally produced. I have at least 3 or 4 real window stickers collected from Canadian sold cars and they all look alike but were obviously done on different typewriters as no two appear the exact same. None appear to be fake and most came with GM documentation that supported the window stickers. I have had 2 of them since at least the early 90's.

Just my 2 bits worth. WE can all do without the sarcasm!! graemlins/sad.gif It's one thing to ask someone to expand on what they have said but we are not going to allow folks to get in each others faces!! After all, we're all on the same side with respect to these old cars, arn't we? :confused:

Funny how everyone is a an expert. How do you know it is fake Kurt. I for one would like an explanation as to how you can tell as I have seen real ones that look typed out as well and do not have the last 6 digits stamped.

I never said that I was an expert. But comparing this one to the dozens of WS's I have, it's not original. And I was not basing it on the VIN at all. Mark mentioned some of the issues with it. I'll let it go at that since it's CRG's policy not to release info on how to ID fake documentation.

Thanks for all the feedback.One thing no one mentioned was my second question,the broadcast sheet.Are the Vin # different.I don't know if a broadcast sheet should have VIN but I would think so.I see the # 13637 on top line OK,but go further to the right and see 540810.Is this the VIN because it is different from vehicle.Am I right.Thanks in advance.

Looks pretty authentic to my untrained eyes... graemlins/sad.gif

Yes the second number on the Broadcast sheet is supossed to be the VIN. It's not uncommon to find another cars broadcast sheet in in Chevelles. Assuming it was found in the car being discussed someone at the Oshawa plant probably grabbed the rear seat destined for 1363701540810s and stuck them in 13637O1534768. But 6000 VIN's is about a months production, so maybe the rear seat got transplanted by a previous or current owner sometime in the past.

Your not going to get anything from George Zapora, since the car wans't sold new in Canada. Kingston NY is about 75 miles north of NY City on the west side of the Hudson river. George works for GM Canada, and those are the only cars the vintage services group have records for. Don't think they have records for the Oshawa built cars sold in the US. [/QB]OK Dennis point taken, but it had to be said as this was another short post from a respectable CRG spokesperson on what appears to be a good document where it's labeled as another fake, yet no explanation as to why that comment is made. If one is going to say fake, then at least explain why in your comments so some other people can understand what you might be thinking. Many facts CRG seems to shield are common knowledge to many of us, and if you'd like me to expand on GM Canada documents sometime, I will. Half the stuff you shroud came from the users who supplied it to you in the first place so don't treat it like a virus. Share it...as it was given. Thats the whole purpose to this site right?

As for Marks response to it all, I am scratching my head a bit. Mark....the originator who wrote this claimed as follows:

I know its canadian built and I could get documents from themI replied assuming the car is Canadian built as it was stated and as it is shown on the document in question. I have spoken with George many a time over the years and yes there are documents for "ALL" Canadian Built Cars as well as any cars that were sold in Canada and manufactured state side. Just phone the VIN number in which is what I suggested in the first place. If the records are there, the car is real and is NOT FAKE. If not, it's a clone and the phone call is FREE to whoever placed it!

Please leave this up Dennis as this is fair play. I am getting tired of all the comments on Canadian facts where perhaps the person responding should learn more about it before they write something about GM Canada documents. The whole point here was to make the call which ends up free if the car is a clone.

I REMAIN!

"Many facts CRG seems to shield are common knowledge to many of us....."

I have no idea where you would come up with that statement or why.
We always try to balance the interests of the enthusiast with the downside of unscrupulous people misusing the information. There is data found on the CRG site that is found nowhere else. And the information on our site is correct.
There are a few things we will not release/discuss. Making better documentation fakes is one of them. Sorry if that upsets you.........

If you've looked at any window stickers, that one stands out as a bad repro. RPO's have a single line description. Except for that SS454 paragraph.

Clickable:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2479006503

Kurt and Mark, you don't have to say it. I will. You guys are experts. I for one greatly appreciate your input here.

Having said that, all I can say is...WOW! That documentation is repro/fake? With the rips, folds, tape, and aged look of the paper? It scares me to know that you guys are of the opinion that someone can make documentation appear this original.

If that car was originally shipped to Canada(notice the Canada sticker) but then came back into the US and was sold at a dealer in NY, wouldn't GM of Canada have documentation on it then?

Jeff,

The A Body Chevelles were also made in Canada and were sold into the US. The cars built here have records and the Vintage Department will send the documentation for the normal fee of 35.00. If someone is unsure and want to find out if this car is a real SS, they can call George at 905-644-5843 to verfiy. He will take their payment and fax the build sheet within hours.