I finally got photos of the eBay air cleaner I purchased. They are posted in the following thread: air cleaner identification (http://www.fiero.nl/forum/Forum6/HTML/014735.html). However, they may be removed soon since they’re in the Totally O/T section of Pennock's Fiero Forum and the administrator there doesn’t like many non-fiero photos being uploaded to the server.

Anyway, I’m going to auction the air cleaner off, but I want to make sure that it is indeed the correct air cleaner for a 1968 4bbl 327 V8 manual transmission camaro, so I can list it correctly—I certainly do not want to mislead someone else as I was misled!

Many thanks.

Let me start this by saying I have a 69 so I'm not as familiar with the 67/68 engine components. But this air cleaner may be from a 67 as I don't see any PCV connections in the base or side of the air cleaner. 68's had a PCV systems installed, early 67's had a road draft tube ventilation system, and valve covers without breathers.

If a car has a PCV system then there needs to be a way to get filtered air into the crankcase, and that is usually done by connecting to the air cleaner assembly inside the filter element, or by using one of those little filter elements with a hose connection through the side of the air cleaner.

I was wondering where the crankcase breather would have been (see air cleaner assembly identification--please help (http://www.camaros.net/cgi-bin/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=6&t=003375). That seller not only lied about it being a thermostatic he also lied about it being a '68 :(

Thanks for the reply.

First off, 67's did not use a draft tube! LOL They had a PCV system just like a 68 only that the valve itselft was NOT located on the valve cover. It was located within a hose which went to a baffle under the intake manafold and out the rear of the block. In order for fresh air to circulate in, the oil filler cap doubled as the breather element. 68 AUTO cars did not have AIR but had the heatriser and a crankcase vent hose from the RH valve cover to the air cleaner. The oil filler car was then replaced by a non-vented one. Your car, being a manual, had to have had the AIR system but NOT the "Thermac" system. So you need the air cleaner that is just like the one pictured, except there will be a "D" shaped hole oppisite the snorkle. I would keep that air cleaner and just manufacture a hole for the PCV ventilation. I take it you're not putting back the AIR system..

Originally posted by 1967 Panther:
First off, 67's did not use a draft tube! LOL They had a PCV system just like a 68 only that the valve itselft was NOT located on the valve cover. It was located within a hose which went to a baffle under the intake manafold and out the rear of the block. In order for fresh air to circulate in, the oil filler cap doubled as the breather element. 68 AUTO cars did not have AIR but had the heatriser and a crankcase vent hose from the RH valve cover to the air cleaner. The oil filler car was then replaced by a non-vented one. Your car, being a manual, had to have had the AIR system but NOT the "Thermac" system. So you need the air cleaner that is just like the one pictured, except there will be a "D" shaped hole oppisite the snorkle. I would keep that air cleaner and just manufacture a hole for the PCV ventilation. I take it you're not putting back the AIR system.. 1967 Panther,

I thought some of the early ’67s did use draft tubes (I’ve seen reproductions of such in the Classic Industries Camaro catalog). Also, did you see my earlier thread on this (I posted the link above)? I need the air cleaner for a powerglide-equipped car--in other words, I need the thermostatic version. To make the one pictured work would involve adding the provisions for a breather and the vacuum diaphragm motor.

Originally posted by 1967 Panther:
First off, 67's did not use a draft tube! LOL They had a PCV system just like a 68 only that the valve itselft was NOT located on the valve cover. It was located within a hose which went to a baffle under the intake manafold and out the rear of the block.Jeez, I wonder what a draft tube looks like? Could it look something like a metal tube with a 45 degree angle cut at the bottom, that ran down the back of the block and was attached to the top of the block and connected to a little metallic filter assembly that was about an inch in diameter and 1 1/2 tall sitting in the back of the lifter valley?

PCV was not included in all cars in 67 except those built in CA. That's probably why there is an option RPO K25 Engine, Closed Positive Ventilation that was installed on 34503 67 Camaros destined for California. There is also another option K19 Air Injection Reaction, installed in 34096 of these same California destined cars.

ALL other 67's have draft tubes.

PCV became a standard feature and AIR pumps were required on all manual transmissioned cars effective in the 1968 model year.

MarkC is correct - 1967 Ca emissions (and "High Altitude" emissions) cars recieved a 'Closed Crankcase PCV System' which mounted the PCV valve in the neck of the Oil Fill Tube and used a sealed twist-on filler cap. The rear of the engine had a vent tube assembly (we didn't refer to them as draft tubes by then) that went to the base of the air filter assembly. Many of these cars were also equiped with AIR systems.
I was a California Licensed Smog Tech back in the day and signed off many of these systems during smog checks.
1968 and beyond used a PCV system that is the more familiar PCV valve in the valve cover and other cover to the base of the air cleaner type.

So is it most likely a 1967 air cleaner for either manual or automatic camaros?

I don't feel comfortable listing it as something it's not, nor can I offer it for trade without knowing which applications it correctly fits.

For all I know, it might not even be for a camaro at all.

Thanks guys for helping me figure this out.

It's definately from a manual transmissioned car as it has no preheater door on the snorkel. It is most likely from a 67, or earlier 327 4 barrel carbed engine. It may be and may not be from a Camaro.

It looks like a L30 air cleaner for a 67. It could be for a sick or an auto (no 67's had the preheater door on the snorkel). Add a chrome lid and it could be used on a SS350. It could be from some other chevy car also, but I think they may be the same anyway.

Cturner, I'm sorry, I misread your post. I thought you were looking for one for a manual trans. Yes, you need one with the Thermac.

Vintage68, right. CA cars used a PCV in the oil filler tube and a closed ventilation system to the air cleaner, but non CA cars also have a PCV system and was vertially the same principal BUT vented INCOMING air to the atmosphere through ther oil filler cap. CA cars were not allowed to use this cap, that's why they used their own system. PCV valves were mandatory on ALL cars starting in '62.

MarkC, NO Camaro had a tube in the back of the engine leading out into the atmosphere. I take it you've never dealt much in 67's. The unit coming out of the rear of the block, DID NOT go down the back in ANY 67. Those tubes were outlawed I think in 61. The unit connected to a hose that lead through a PCV valve to manafold vacuum. 67 2bbl models used a screw in PCV mounted at the rear of the carb, while 4bbl models used an inline PCV valve held by a clip that attached to the carb stud (Z/28) or to the intake manafold bolt (L48 and L30). ALL 67 Camaros had PCV's. I've never lived in CA or dealt much with those models but I can agree with Vintage68. Their system was completely closed, while 67 used a "partially" closed system, but was nothing like the draft tube system of the 50's. I've had many, many many, 67 Camaros and yet to see one without a positive vent. system. The chamber under the intake is simply a baffle, much like the one in later valve covers.

Last thing, the air cleaner Cturner owns is not necessarily for a manual trans. car unless it has an opening for a breather element.ALso, the Camaro style air cleaners for 4bbl models sat lower than those used in Chevelles and Impalas due to hood clearance, so you'll need to check out what the offset is to determine wether it's for a Camaro or other application.

I hope this thread doesn't devolve into a flame war and get closed before I receive some more feedback. My main concern is unloading this air cleaner and recovering my loss. That said, along with my noting that I've never owned a '67 (or a '69 or any other year besides my '68)--in Classic Industries 2002 Camaro catalog on page 619, there is listed (with photo) 1967 Crankcase Vent Tube Reproduction of the original crankcase vent tube used with early 67 Camaros. Original application includes use with closed positive ventilation system on 8 cylinders or Camaros without the A.I.R. (Air Injection Reactor system). Also available for use with California emissions. This tube installs on the rear most section of the block directly behind the distrubtor. Installation stud included.There are three part numbers:
PR110 67 with plug wire stand
PR111K 67 302 w/plug wire stand
PR112K 67 California with A.I.R.

Also, if any of you want the air cleaner, I paid $50.01 (that included the shipping) for it. The original auction page is at 1968 Chevrolet Camaro Air Cleaner Breather (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2408866783&category=38634). If you know what application(s) it fits and believe it is worth $50.01 (plus actual shipping to your address--I'll ship USPS or UPS, your choice), it's yours. Let me know. I'll take a personal check (hold till it clears) or postal money order or if you live in Charleston, SC I'll meet you in person and take cash. I may try to sell it at a local car show this weekend, so let me know if you're interested.

Thanks.

Panther - sorry, didn't mean to indicate that non Ca. cars didn't have PCV - I know they did. 1967 Ca cars had the K24 Closed Positive Venting System on them and others had a 'semi-closed' system, no draft tubes. The 1968 RPO was changed to KD5 for this system.
The systems work about the same except they flow backwards to each other, the Ca cars pulled their incoming crankcase air from the air filter housing through the rear tube and exited through the PCV in the oil tube into the carb v.s. the others which the crankcase vent air entered from the vented cap on the oil tube and exited the crankcase through the rear tube into the PCV valve and then to the carb. I saw a great diagram of this system on the wall of a dealership once - many moons ago.

I believe 'cturner' is still looking for the correct smaller dia. 1968 327/PG (49 state) air cleaner that has the Thermec system - is anyone able to help him with his quest or did I miss something in all this?

Originally posted by cturner:
)--in Classic Industries 2002 Camaro catalog on page 619, there is listed (with photo) 1967 Crankcase Vent Tube </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Reproduction of the original crankcase vent tube used with early 67 Camaros. Original application includes use with closed positive ventilation system on 8 cylinders or Camaros without the A.I.R. (Air Injection Reactor system). Also available for use with California emissions. This tube installs on the rear most section of the block directly behind the distrubtor. Installation stud included.</font>[/QUOTE]I just love the discriptions in some of the catalogs! If read completely it says you can use on it on about everything - got to talk to Bob B. about that one some day.
As I understand the RPO codes and from past experience with Ca. Emissions systems - you had to order the Closed PCV System to get A.I.R. and all Ca. Cars had A.I.R. Maybe they are lumping all their part numbers into the discription, but it sure gets confusing. :confused:

Hope it doesn't turn into a "flame war" either! Just trying to get everything straight. I think many times we leave things that are commonly known out of our replies and it can get interpreted to mean we didn't know. No offense taken in anything that has been said in any of the postings in reguards to me.

First, I am no expert on this subject, but I do see some problems on both sides of the PCV argument.
1) The govs mandatory date for PCV valves was not '62 it was '68. Look at this doc: http://www.dnrec.state.de.us/air/aqm_page/docs/pdf/reg_26.pdf
Maybe PCV were mandatory in CA in '62?
2) Why are there more K24 options ordered than K19 if they were only used on CA sold cars?
I do know that CA sold cars have to have both K24 and K19 options.

Dan;

Read up a couple replies earlier and you will find a possible explanation in one of my replies - this option was also required in some 'High Altitude' areas.
I have explored this a little and found that some LA cars where shipped to other states in high altitude areas with either the K24 option or both the K24 & K19 options. I don't know if this was a required option in those areas or just someones idea of a good thing to do.
The K24 option was listed on the RPO list and could have been ordered by anyone in any state as far as I know. There may also be some uses of this system on export cars - BUT, this is a quess on my part!
Don't have concrete numbers to back up any trend in what cars were ordered with these systems and where they were shipped to except for Ca. cars. The rest are just observances based on working on these things in the Left Coast states. BTW - not All Ca cars had either or both systems! Cars sold in the Non-impact Smog areas (for example the Colorado River area near Blyth and Needles) did not have these systems but were equiped with Arizona or 49 state emissions. There may be other areas of the state like up near Oregon that cars were sold with 49 state systems - but, I'm not sure about that. You can check with the DMV in some cases to see where the car was first sold. I found that mine came from Palm Springs.

Hope this clears some of this up;
John

I thought both K19 and K24 were mandatory in CA, but that makes sense that some of the non-smog areas were not required to have both, or maybe just had the K24 option. That would also explin the slightly greater sales of of K24.

Sorry, I was incorrect by stating PCV valves were mandatory in '62. I meant to say Chevy began using them in '62 on all their models. Pontiac started them in '59! I don't believe any 327 ever had a draft tube.

The part Classic Industries is selling is the unit that mounts on the back of the block. I haven't looked at it in a while, but I think it's for use either with the closed system or for Z/28's. I just remember there being something different about the application.

I don't mean to put anyone down at all. I wasn't laughing at MarkC's thread. I merely found it funny to hear the work draft tube again. I'm sure there's ALOT of stuff MarkC can teach me about 69's that I don't have a clue about. That's why I'm on this site. To share my experiences and learn from others' experiences.

Cturner, getting back to your air cleaner..You shouldn't have much trouble locating the correct one for your car. The one you have is much rarer than the one you're looking for. Also, I believe all 68, 69 and maybe even 70 Chevy models shared that cleaner. There's a place in Vancouver, WA that have thousands of ONLY old american car parts. You may try them. All American Classics Inc. (360) 254-8850

The '68 CCS air cleaner shouldn't be too hard to find. The problem will be finding the heat stove to fit the LH exhaust manifold. I think these were '68 only items. Most have either rusted away or have been discarded by now. "67's didn't use CCS, and '69's were moved to the RH manifold.

I have the heat stove on mine now for the original 2bbl (were the stoves the same for both 2bbl and 4bbl carbs?).

Also, just another reminder for anyone interested:

If any of you want the non-thermostatic air cleaner shown in the first post's link, I paid $50.01 (that included the shipping) for it. If you know what application(s) it fits and believe it is worth $50.01 (plus actual shipping to your address--I'll ship USPS or UPS, your choice), it's yours. Let me know. I'll take a personal check (hold till it clears) or postal money order or if you live in Charleston, SC I'll meet you in person and take $50.00 cash for it. I may try to sell it at a local car show this weekend, so let me know if you're interested.

Thanks, guys, for all your help. The PCV info was most interesting too.

Send me an email(address is in my profile) I may be interested.

Kurt pointed me to this thread. Hard to be sure without dimensions, or the part number sticker (it looks to have been repainted) but it does look like a 68 L30/manual air cleaner. The 68 is a bit different from the 67 - 68 has taller dish to the lid, 67 is flatter.

I'm in Orlando, will definitely be in Charleston this October for a meeting, driving up. If you don't sell it to someone else I'll take it, send you a check now, and pick it up then (I'm in no particular hurry for it).

Let me know. Email at fields@slr.orl.lmco.com

Best wishes!

Rich Fields
CRG

Got a double-post so deleted the text of the second...