: Decode a 69 cowl tag?
Mar 13th, 00, 09:58 PM
Ive had my camaro for 16 years but have not been able to document it. The cowl tag reads 69 12437NOR123456 bdy 729 50b and there is a 10C on the third line. The VIN is 124379N525636. More clues - white w/ black stripes, PDB, manual steering, multi leaf springs, 4spd and 12bolt (may not be original axle). Thanks for any help.
Mar 14th, 00, 12:16 PM
124379N525636 = 25,636th '69 Camaro built at the Norwood, Ohio plant - V-8 coupe
69 - 1969 Model
12437NOR - Norwood Ohio
123456 - sequential body number
729 - Ivory Houndstooth dlx. interior
50b - Dover white with a black vinyl top
10C - built 3rd week of October, 1968
Hope this helps,
Steve McCorry - Central Ohio Camaro Club
'69 Camaro RS/SS-350 - Daytona Yellow
'95 Camaro Z-28 - Sebring Silver
Mar 14th, 00, 04:15 PM
The rear axle # is stamped on the upper front side of the passenger axle tube and will tell us the original ratio and build date. It will take some cleaning to find it. See the 'Decoding' section of www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org) for a great sketch of the location.
2 fuel lines or one?
Is the trans or engine original?
Let us know what you find.
Mar 14th, 00, 04:18 PM
And the NOR # is 123456 for real?
Mar 14th, 00, 04:24 PM
he he...I didn't notice that. Would be weird if that was really it....
Mar 14th, 00, 08:39 PM
There is a GM9 (upside down) stamped on the upper drivers side of the axle. I will look for more numbers. I am suspicious of it being original though because there is a bracket for a traction bar hanging down on the pass. side half way down the axle tube.
It doesn't have the second fuel line
If I remember right the engine code says the 327 came out of a full size 65 chevy.
Mar 14th, 00, 08:57 PM
First of all, thanks!. I really appreciate your responses. I bought the car as an RS/Z28 in 1984. It has a 327 (not original) and M-21 4-speed. I haven't found a build sheet on top of the gas tank or up under the back seat. Youve proven it's too early of a camaro to have an "X" code. Could this still be a Z-28?
Thanks again. MNT2
Yeah that 123456 # on the cowl is wierd since you guys pointed that out.
Mar 14th, 00, 09:26 PM
My car has 4-leaf springs. Also there are a couple of brackets on the left frame rail. The first is ahead of the shock, held in by 3 bolts and has a slit in the bottom of it. Nothing connected. The second is a 1 3/4 x 4" plate welded to the outside rail - pretty thin - with an old exhaust hanger still attached. Is this the plate that could help narrow the car down to an SS or Z28? Thanks, MNT2
[This message has been edited by mnt2 (edited 03-16-2000).]
Mar 14th, 00, 10:12 PM
This probably sounds "over-obvious", but you might check the heater core box on the firewall. Small block cars had hose inlet/outlet on the side, next to the engine, and big block cars had them in the middle of the box, for more engine clearance, on non A/C cars.
Mar 15th, 00, 06:54 AM
The heater hose outlets are on the side of the heater core box next to the engine. Good tip. Thanks.
Mar 15th, 00, 09:59 AM
I can't remember if the 69's had tire pressure stickers showing the 15" tires or not. Look for the tire pressure sticker(I forget where - glovebox, door jamb) and see if it says 14 or 15" tire. Only the Z28's had 15's. It's not solid proof, but it's a good hint especially if you've had the car that long.
Mar 15th, 00, 02:33 PM
Check to see if you have an adaptor plate welded to the left side rear frame rail. This plat was used for installing the left side tail pipe hanger. It's behind the LR tire a little rearward of the shock. It's my understanding that in 69 only SS hardtops,Z/28, and COPO 427's had this plate. Also, the blackout tail panel would indicate a SS396. The tail panel on an SS350 was painted the body color.
Mar 15th, 00, 02:48 PM
Sounds like you have a '67 rear end in the car. What you described as a traction bar bracket sounds like the '67 Radius rod bracket.
Mar 15th, 00, 02:54 PM
Single fuel line: it's either a 327, 302, or a L78 car.
The black tailpan: who knows who repainted the car.
Small block heater core: possibly original. A SB will fit with a BB heater core, so there is no need to change it.
Rear: possibly a 67
Trans: ? The stamped # is on the rear edge of the pass side of maincase.
Tailpipe plate: ? Is is there? Dual exhaust cars (both hipo cars and cars with the N10 option) got it.
[This message has been edited by Kurt S (edited 03-15-2000).]
Mar 15th, 00, 09:35 PM
My car has 4 leaf springs. It also has a couple exhaust ? brackets on the left frame rail. The first is a bolt on - looks factory- ahead of the shock held with 3 bolts. It has a slit opening on the bottom. Nothings connected to it. The second is a 1 3/4" by 4" welded plate - not very thick. It has an old exhaust hanger still bolted to it. Could this be the plate mccorry mentioned? He mentioned it could help narrow the car down to a SS hardtop or Z28.
Mar 15th, 00, 10:01 PM
The paint under the grill of windshield wiper panel is black. Fortunately or not the top layer of paint is silver and its flaking off so bad its easy to see the original colors underneath. I will reply as soon as I can get some drivetrain #s and measure the fuel line outside diameter and the steering arm. Was the Z28 the only model to get the racing stripes? Thanks again.
[This message has been edited by mnt2 (edited 03-17-2000).]
Mar 16th, 00, 05:07 AM
Do you want the good new or the bad news? http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
The leaf springs are a good sign. Most Z's had 4 leafs, though other option combinations could also get 4 leafs.
The tailpipe adaptor is there for a dual exhaust.
But all this is not proof unfortunately.
The tailpipe adaptor was also used on any V8 that was ordered with the dual exhaust option. And the 4 leaf springs were available on the base car or could have been changed when the rear end was changed.
So it is a possible Z, but we need to find better proof.
4 questions that may help prove it:
What is the diameter of the fuel line? (preferably measured in the middle of the line with calipers so I can compare to my cars.)
What is the trans code?
What is the rearend code?
Have you ever painted the car? What color was the cowl area by the wipers? A Z would have 3 layers of a paint: black on white on black.
The good news is we haven't proved it wasn't a Z.
Mar 16th, 00, 10:08 AM
Kurt, One other clue I thought of. I know Z's had "quick ratio" steering. Would measuring the pitman arm length help narrow it down? I think it's 5.75 in center to center.
Mar 17th, 00, 02:39 AM
Kurt, can you explain the cowl area paint being black on white on black. I don't understand. I assume the white is from the car being Dover White. Why the black under and over that. Black under, primer? Black over, stripe paint? Is this the way to tell if the car originally had stripes or did all Z's have three layers of paint in this area?
Mar 17th, 00, 04:08 PM
It should be black first from the firewall paint. Then the white, then the black in the cowl area to match the stripes. Understand, the top coat is not the stripes, but they painted the cowl area to match the stripes. Looks funny if you don't.
This is not reliable cause you don't know if someone stripped and repainted the car. But it is worth a look.
Good call on the pitman arm. But again, this steering was optional on other cars, but it would be an unusual option. There should be a part # on the arm. Is it 3953227 (5.75 center to center)?