Hello, My name is John and I am new here. I've been reading some of the messages in this column about identifying Camaros which have had equipment changes, modifications, been stripped or altered over the past 30+ years. Is there any real acurate way to identify and verify a cars authenticity without the build sheet or Protect-o-plate. I am always hearing about someone buying a car with just a small block and a 10 bolt and then finding out, somehow, that it was originally a 427 COPO equipped with special options. Do most of them still have the build sheet stashed some where, in tact? Or,is there a source somewhere that, based on the VIN, can provide information specific to a vehicle? It would be nice if GM could provide such info.
I am not out trying to find the next rare Camaro or prove anyone elses to be a fake. But, in a world flooded with clones, I would just like to be sure that what I have is real. Any help with that kind of information would be appreciated.

I have a 1969 RS/SS 350/300 w/3speed muncie (unless the build sheet is the headliner, its missing): 1968 standard 327/210, w/pg: 1979 Z28 350efi w/4speed.

Post all the info from your trim tag and vin and the guys on here will decode it for you and maybe be able to tell you what it should be. Tom.

Build sheets were not intentionally left inside the car, except for LA built Camaros, which had them taped to the top of the fuel tank. If you find one in a Norwood car, it's just pure luck, and it's just as likely to be for a different car as it is for the car you have.

Just for the record, there is no such thing as a 3 speed Muncie, in a Camaro. If it's a 3 speed manual, its a Saginaw transmission.

John, like Xram said, start by posting your car's VIN and Cowl tag info, the rear end codes and transmission codes too. Then we can start to figure out what you have. If its an LA built car there MIGHT be a build sheet on top of the gas tank, if its NORWOOD built, odds are not good to finding it but if its in the car, its behind a seat cushion, or under it, or stuffed under the dash or in a fender wedge inside the trunk, they have been found in very odd places. Without a POP or build sheet or dealer invoice with the VIN on it, there is no 100% way of knowing for sure what your car was born with.
Lets see what we can find out for you.
Post away
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Mark,


Just for the record, there is no such thing as a 3 speed Muncie, in a Camaro. If it's a 3 speed manual, its a Saginaw transmission.Not doubting you, but are you sure about that? CBTN (65-69), page 287 shows the Muncie 3-speed heavy duty MC1 usage in the 69 Camaro with 350/255, 350/300, 396/325, 396/350 and 396/375.

Ed

Thanks everyone for the responses.
I've been able to decode the vin and trim plate without too much problem I think but here it is:
VIN:124379N558313

ST69 12437 NOR198627
TR711 69 BPNT
12B
I don't have the engine or trans numbers handy at this time but I do know they each have the correct VIN stamped on them. I will provide those numbers shortly.

My original concern is that even though the VIN and trim tag can provide a great amount of information, I still won't be able to tell if the car came from the factory with things like chambered exhaust or console gages.

As for the muncie 3 speed (MC1), I refer to it as a muncie for a few reasons. First, the flat chrome stick with the muncie logo. Second, several resources explain differences between the MC1 and the standard Saginaw 3spd. I've also read that the heavy duty MC1 was only available in 350/300 or 396 applications and was standard when the SS package was ordered on the camaro. Thanks for all the input.

Chambered pipes had a unique drivers side rear hangar monted on the outside of the drivers side rear frame rail. If it is still there, that would be a good clue. Another clue, you might luck out and find the 2 small steel brackets up near the front of the gas tank screwed to the underbody. If you have neither, you have no way of knowing.

-Mark.

You are right, there was an MC1, 3 speed heavy duty transmission used in 69. This was the Base Transmission in an SS and 3069 cars came equipped with it in 69. It is different than the M15 3 speed standard transmission which was the standard transmission on base camaros. The MC1 was only available on SS's (L48, L35, L34,). I don't think it was available on an L78 I guess this would make the MC1 a Muncie Transmsission, and the M15 a Saginaw.

There are lots of subtle differences in the cars to figure out if it originally had guages, deluxe interiors and exteriors, you just need to spend some time looking at the car and asking questions.

As far as chambered exhaust goes, you don't have to worry about it, as it was only available on big blocks, and Z28's. No small block's had them from the factory.

Kind of strange . . . but the 3 speed standard came standard in a lot of 1st gen cars including SS with 350s (with the special muncie).

My 69 olds 442 convertible has a standard muncie 3 speed original to the car. It was the base trans with the 400 Big block in the olds 442s.

My dads 71 442 conv. is the same way . . . muncie 3 speed standard trans with the 455 BB.
Something new every day. :D