I just purchased a very solid 1969 Camaro,with all original body panels,floors,trunk,almost all original drivetrain. What I don't understand is that the cowl tag is attached with non original rivets,vin plate also attached with non original rivets,and the partial vin on the cowl has been ground off.I haven't pulled the heater box to check if the partial vin there has been tampered with also. The numbers do match on the car with the tags because, I was able to lift the partial vin from the cowl from the underside of the stamped sheetmetal.I know there are many possible reasons for this. What can you guys come up with? This car may have spent alot of time on the drag strip, because it has a Dodge 8 3/4 rear end, and a rack on the front end. (bolt on)What do you think?

Since you purchased the car already this may be a moot point, but obviously you saw enough value in the car to purchase it even with the concerns you have.

Personally as long as the car wasn't sold, or bought, on the pretense of being a numbers matching SS, RS/SS, Z28, etc with a high dollar price tag I wouldn't be to concerned.

Also you might as well pull the heater box and check the partial vin to satisfy your curiosity.

Rocketrod: I purchased this car sight unseen, these issues came up after I received the car. Dom.

I can't imagine why someone would grind the hidden vin if it matched the vin tag and title. If you're OK, then fine, but I'd be skeptical.

Maybe the bodyman accidentally left the grinder on, and set it down on the cowl. Before he could grab it, it ground off the hidden VIN......what do you mean, it coulda happened that way!

Sounds like it was a race car with no paper work and no vin. Someone swaped a vin and trim tag from another car.Best case. Worst case it was stolen at some point.

This car is a plain X-44 car, and was purchased as such.I also, can't imagine why all numbers match, but at the same time everything being tampered with.I also believe that this was a dedicated race car of sorts because, it is so clean and rust free and obviously hasen't been exposed to the elements so much.Could it be possible that this car was stolen at one time and then recovered? Any input is appreciated. Dom.

The tags having been removed and put back on doesnt bother me its the hidden vin being ground off that leads me to believe someone was trying to cover something up.Pull the heater box and see if that one is there and matches.

If you are not happy with the car, call the seller and DEMAND a refund of your money and shipping expenses NOW!

Toss around a few words such a "felony fraud" to help illustrate the severity of the situation. The seller "may" or "may not" have known the points you describe. From your perspective you MUST assume he/she did know the tags have been replaced/modified and pursue your action as such. Do not spend a dime on this car until this is resolved. Do not let anyone look at the car until this is resolved as the police can/will confiscate this car in most juridictions IF they know there are problems with VIN tags and/or VIN tag removal as you described.

Remember, the car you just purchased is the car you WILL someday sell. If you do not resolve this issue NOW, you "may" be on the receiving end of possible litigation and the problems that can arrise when you decide to sell the car!

There are too many other cars out there available to have fool with these types of problems.

If it was a race car then maybe it was never registered or title back in the day so they removed all the identification while racing. Then they were able to get a new title so the tags went back on. Check the hidden VIN behind the blower box and if it matches you should be fine. When was the title issued that you got with the car?

It's a possibility that they were planning to re-badge it and had an attack of guilt. Or got caught.

I would definately try to contact an owner other than the one you bought it from. Maybe the seller will give up this info if you pressure him a little.
Sounds like the car was in pieces at one time and someone removed all traces of tracking the body/shell. If the car had no VIN, Cowl tag, or hidden VIN, it couldn't be proven it was a stolen car. After so many years, maybe someone decided to put it back together and re apply the tags to sell it as a complete car.

Just a theory, one thing I've learned , never assume anything but I'd research it a little further before I pumped tons of money into something that could be taken away.

You guys all bring up valid points. Before contacting the previous owner I wanted to check with this site to get as much information as possible. You guys haven't let me down.But remember I was able to lift an imprint from under the cowl directly where the partial vin is stamped and it matches. My next mission is to check under the heater box for the other partial vin. Keep the suggestions coming. Thanks again, Dom.

good luck getting it inspected for a title in your state

most state will confiscate a car like that and you will be out all you spent

I would get my money back and return it so it wouldn't be on my property and be responsible for it

ground off vin numbers and re rivited vin tag is BAD

I missed the part where you said the partial vin matches.Dont know why it was ground off but if it matches the vin tag I see no problem.As old as these cars are you will probably never know why the tags were removed.

There is one more possibilty. Lot's of body shops back in the day used firebird body's to make clone camaros, or clip cars. So they grind off the vins to hide it. I know an old guy that was doing that in the seventies. But, there is no telling. Is the other hidden vin still there?

This car was purchased in the U.S. and delivered to me in Canada, and had no problem with the vin search at the border, came back with no leins, not reported stolen. It has a clear title, last issued just about a month ago, and purchased by the owner that I bought from, 4 months before that.Armed with all this material I will have no problem getting an ownership (title) for this car here in Canada. Next chance I get I will pull the heater box and see what happened to the other partial vin. Thanks, Dom.

never buy a car sight unseen!
you could be without a car and legal troubles.
this includes Ebay cars.
1st thing to check - firewall and dash vin numbers match.

there is a extremely REMOTE possibility that the car started as a "body in white"

ie a tub intended for racing

then there may not have been any numbers associated with the vin, etc

I do not know if they had a program like that back then or if ALL the cars/bodies came with vin tags and numbers

regardless, a car with a "funny" vin like that and the "hidden vin" being tampered with is bad news in most peoples books

Jim; thanks for the input, truthfully this is one possibility that I did not think of. Does anybody have any knowledge of a 1969 Camaro "body in white?" thanks, Dom.

Bodies-in-white were built very rarely, in very small numbers, and were shipped out on wooden skids built in the plant; most were ordered by Engineering, and had no VIN, hidden or otherwise. They were ordered with a part number, and shipped that way. A "body-in-white" is a raw, unpainted, welded body shell from the firewall back, just as it was ready to be conveyed from the Body Shop to the Paint Shop; it was plucked off the line at the end of the Body Shop and strapped to a skid. graemlins/thumbsup.gif