I was wondering what a acceptable cast date and block stamp date would be for a 02D Z28. Thanks .

You looking for one, or making one?

Hi Mark, No not making 1. A friend is looking at a 69 Z for sale and the motor numbers sound too late to me. It is a 02D car and the casting number is 618 , cast date is B-12-9, and the stamp pad is V0218DZ. I think he said the heads are A-28-9. What is your opinion? Thanks for the reply.

By the way the vin is 9N603172.

That's a good date for that VIN and build date. Feb - March built Z28s ran really close between engine assembly and Car assembly. I believe they were catching up on z28 production that were delayed in October, November due to some supply issues with certain Z28 components. It's is the right casting number for that period, and it was assembled probably a week before the car was built. I know of another Z28 roughly 1500 VIN's after this one with an 02/21 assembled engine.

To repeat what KurtS said on a similar thread, if you were stamping an engine, would you stamp it this close to the build date of the car, or kick it out 2 weeks to make it look better.

Got any pictures of the pad stamps?

What is the answer to all of this? Hemmings has people selling "custom" blocks, gang stamps for VINs, you got the trim tag guy, et al, selling trim tags and rivets, there are repro POP's and build sheets, and it looks like you will soon be able to buy the whole cotton pickin' body carcas! So, is not all of this in vain- short of factory or dealer documentation? But wait, folks are swapping around VIN tags...it is a sad paradox that these vehicles, seemingly built as the working man (or womans) alternative to the 'Vette now have become subject to so much fraud and have become priced beyond the reach of many enthusiasts. :cool:

That vin is 100 off from my O2D built z casting
# A179 build 0125DZ so it was assb the same day
other than the shocks 1 23 9 & 1 25 9 its the
earlyist dates code on the car hope this helps
must have been alot of Z's built in feb & mar
looks like alot of them showing up

On my 05A Z, the POP says V0417DZ, but that motor is long gone. I guess that's 2-3 weeks max. Just an FYI.

What is the answer to all of this? Hemmings has people selling "custom" blocks, gang stamps for VINs, you got the trim tag guy, et al, selling trim tags and rivets, there are repro POP's and build sheets, and it looks like you will soon be able to buy the whole cotton pickin' body carcas! So, is not all of this in vain- short of factory or dealer documentation? But wait, folks are swapping around VIN tags...it is a sad paradox that these vehicles, seemingly built as the working man (or womans) alternative to the 'Vette now have become subject to so much fraud and have become priced beyond the reach of many enthusiasts.
This is exactly why having a Canadian Delivered car is so valuable. GM Canada retains a master list of all cars, serial numbers, ship dates and options to verify the car's authenticity. Anyone that has doubts about a so called documented car car can then call GM Vintage Department in Ottawa and request a factory build sheet to authenticate the VIN and Options the car was shipped with.

As for numbers and stamps....well it's with the help of people like MarK C and others who have studied fonts (and have a database) that we can lend some credibility to some of the cars. I have a good friend here in Calgary that is as knowledgable as many of the VIN guru's and he has taught me a lot about what to look for in vintage cars, and how to identify frauds.

I would recommend that any car enthusiast looking to buy a car these days do their homework and read up on "how to identify a fraud". Sad but true, this is now necessary due to the rising price of "real ? cars" Maybe someone like Mark C. or Kurt S could write a book titled
Camaro (Fraud by the Numbers)

In the most twisted sense, perhaps all is not lost, for the appearance of more 'fake' cars on the scene makes your 'genuine' car all the more valuable. If the provenance can be substantiated, of course.

That is well put Hugger 69. I was thinking out loud, and most likely could have left my post to my self. Was not directed at anyone, just to be clear. Maybe a pipe dream, I hope that the records compilation that is reportedly being done will lay all of this to rest.Cheers-

Rob

Thanks to everyone for the replys! Mark C., i do not have any pictures of the pad yet, but if he does buy the car i will get some hopefully. Some good thoughts by Olmpic69 and Hugger69. Sad to say that there are some crooked types who still build clone type cars with made up trim tags and vins etc., for personal gain. It gives the collector car people a bad reputation. Just my 2 bits worth.

That car was built three days before my (Canada-documented) 02D Z/28, and the numbers line up very similarly to mine - looks OK to me. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

John Z, Thanks for the reply! Any chance you could post your numbers?

MarkC so your saying a O2D car should have a
engine not over 2-3 weeks before build date. mine
is 0125 engine and have pop with the car it was
bought new at the local dealer and I'm just the
4th owner but can remember the car from high
school everything is orignal but transmission
when i got it it still had to factory shocks it's a frost green car so its hard to forget it once you see it please don't get the wrong idea not
trying to start anything but I know this is the right engine just seems to my like there alot of feb-march car out there if you have a data base of these cars I'll like to see it for reference if you don't mine thanks

My car is 04A with an engine that is 0321DZ. My M20 trans is actually Jan and the JL8 rear is Feb. They all match the p-o-p and are original to the car. Feb-Mar engines seemed to be packed in there pretty tight. Just watch the next time some Mar 69 Z28 engine parts come up for sale on Ebay, the prices go crazy with a ton of bidders.

No, I'm just saying that I'm not surprised by engine assembly dates really close to the car build dates in this time period.

Remember that the engines were being assembled in one location, the cars in a second. The engines (place whatever part your concerned about here) were shipped to where the cars were being built, and racked for use. The engines (or whatever) were pulled out of the rack as the car that neded them came down the line. Keep in mind that the racking of components was going on on a daily basis. If there was 100 engines delivered every day, and only 90 cars that needed them built every day, then the 10 oldest engines went to the back of the stack when the next hundred showed up. If this happened for a week you end up with 50 engines with earlier dates all at the back of the storage racks. Maybe the next week GM built 105 cars needing this engine, and 100 were still being delivered every day. It would take you 2 weeks to get to that very first engine delivered 3 weeks earlier. This is how cars built during the same time period get engines with differing dates. It's simply a mismatch in build rates for the two facilities. Each plant tries to normalize it's production rates so it's not stressing it's supply system. The engine plants have an estimate of how many of each engine they need to build and then they normalize their schedule accordingly.

If the rear axle plant went on strike and no 3.73 axles were being built then no Z28's would be scheduled to be built at Norwood, or LA, but the engines would continue to be assembled at Flint and stored somewhere. Which resulted in a surplus of engines that needed to be installed when the Z28's started to be built again. Of course GM would then schedule more Z28s to be built each day to clear the backlog of parts they had on hand.

That's why people make up these so called "normal" acceptable dates for engines of up to 6 weeks before the cars build date. In reality there are noticable patterns to these date spreads at different times of the year. You just need to have enough data to recognize them. Of course everytime the info gets posted it's another peice of the puzzle for the serius forgers. The amateurs could care less, and thats why their cars are so easy to pick out.

When did rear end strike take place mine is 0221
and its the closes thing to the built date of car
and it matches POP even the 4 speed peddle have
2 6 69 on them wish I had a 1969 calender

The origonal RS Z28 in Jerrys book with 21k is a 02D car with a 0213DZ and a early feb. casting. I have the casting info somewhere but It was B-11-9. My car and that car are only 30 vins. apart and the NORWOOD # is only 5 apart. I found a 0213DZ block a few years back with a B-3-9. Our cars also have the same MSO date 2/24/69

Originally posted by Tonyx33:
When did rear end strike take place I didn't say a rear end strike occurred, I just used it as an example that any interupption in the supply chain schedule screwed up things for everyone.
But if you need to know some of the interupptions during the 69 model year here they are (not all of them just the major ones):

26 Sep 68 - Muncie strike.
08 Oct 68 - Muncie strike ends.
10 April 69 - Chevrolet-St. Louis on strike (incl all Corvette)
28 April 69 - GMAD (only) plants on strike: Van Nuys, Leeds, Janesville, Baltimore, Tarrytown, Lakewood.
15 May 69 - Tarrytown strike ends.
19 May 69 - Janesville strike ends.
23 May 69 - Leeds strike ends.
26 May 69 - Baltimore strike ends.
09 June 69 - St. Louis strike ends.
19 June 69 - Van Nuys strike ends.
25 July 69 - Lakewood strike ends.
25 Sep 69 - Flint assy curtailed due to Fisher Body strike - no resume date listed.
09 Oct 69 - GMAD Baltimore strike.
24 Oct 69 - Baltimore strike ends.
14 Sep 70 - All GM plants on strike.

I've got a 67-69 calendar in pdf form. I'll send it to someone if they want to post it. I don't want to send it to 500 people though, so if you'll host it and put a link to it for everyone I'll send it.

Mark,

Send the calendar to me in a JPEG format or whatever you have it in and I will post it to my server tonight and link to it from a separate post in Tag Team. This way everyone can view it or save it themselves for future reference.

i could use a little help also I have a 69 Z vin is 549401 car sequence is 140072, Block is stamped VI19DZ the casting on the back is K 12 8.

I am aware it is a early 69 built in 1968 it has the short spoiler and no X codes on the trim tag If the block was cast on Nov. 12 1968 what is the date on the V # notice that it is a letter(I). Is this because it is a 1968 block. The date on the trim tag on the car appears to be 1 D . I think it is a 11 D and it is hidden by the rivet.

Any help is appreicated Danny

You're short one digit in the engine plant stamp - should be four digits between the "V" and the "DZ", not three. "I" and "1" were used interchangeably all the time. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Thanks John , It is V1I19DZ. I am assuming it is 11/19/68 the car is 11D . The car only shows 1D but I think the other one is under the rivet.
So I think the engine was assembled 11/19 and the car was made the last week of Nov. 68