I hate to say this, but ignorance and stupidity prevented me from calling an ad that read 1967 Convertible, 396, basket case needing restoration. The car was sold the week of November 15th. I called the former owner and the new owner. The car was originally Ermine white with a deluxe blue interior. I am choking back a few tears right now, because it was a factory BB (4N code), has a 12 bolt with the traction bar. The motor in it was not the original one. O.K., I hope everybody is sitting down, the car was sold for $1700!!!!!!!.

My first impression is/was that this car is a Pace Car. BUT it does not have tach and gauges and the wood steering wheel. I read that all '67 pacers had this option. Yes, someone could have changed these items, but what other codes or options can I tell the new owner to look for? Hopefully I will get a chance to inspect the car. I heard that exterior color code should read C-1 or 0-1 on the cowl tag.

Also I forgot to mention the car has Power Drum Brakes all around. Wouldn't this type of car have Power front brakes?

I am so angry for not jumping on this car, but the new owner is going to restore it to whatever it was originally and keep it. Not like some people that will cheezily restore it and sell it for a large sum of money, just to make a quick profit.

P.S. The car was sold in Indianapolis- to add insult to injury.

I forgot to mention this car is an SS/RS!

You are correct regarding the paint codes on the trim tag, also the build dates need to be march thru april 1967 as well as a few other nuances. Though a few were built in June, but obviously were not at the race. Check out http://holisticpage/camaro/camaros_fs.htm for excellent info on both 67 and 69 pacers. You are incorrect on the gauges. I've seen a REAL 1967 pace car WITHOUT gauges and a 10 bolt rear. That's right a 10-bolt. Non-posi equipped small block 67 pacers had a 10 bolt rear. Guages were an option. RPO U-14. Also, ALL pace cars were RS/SS. One other point, while $1,700 sure sounds tempting. A "basket case" could easily eat up the better part of $40,000 to do it right. One could be "upside down" in the car real quick (been there). Almost ALWAYS better financially to buy the absolute best condition car you can afford versus a deal on a project. Most cars that are restored correctly never sell for even close to the cost of even the restoration let alone the cost of the base car to begin with. Just my $0.02

[This message has been edited by 70 RS/Z-28 (edited 11-23-99).]

[This message has been edited by 70 RS/Z-28 (edited 11-23-99).]

Record the VIN and the complete trim tag, esp the bottom line. Include any dashes.
Post what you find.

Disc brakes and the gauges (U17) were an option, not required.

I disagree on the 10 bolt part. All pacecar replicas were SS's and got 12 bolts. The pacesetter cars made for Canada were 327 cars and had 10 bolts.

------------------
Kurt S.
www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

Some non-posi small block cars had 10-bolts. This is fact. Look in the official Chev. Indy pace car book by John Hooper and D. M. Crispino. Also, I have personally seen a documented '67 pacer w/original 10-bolt.

Let me reword my statement. All pacecar replicas that were SS's got 12 bolts, posi or non posi.
There were other replicas that weren't SS's and they would get 10 bolts.

Post your numbers and we'll help.

------------------
Kurt S.
www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

From page 41 of the offical Chevrolet Indy Pace Car by John Hooper:

"Rear ends have become a subject of interest to the seasoned Pace Car afficionado and novice. Here's what we have found to be true of the 67 Pacers; those that are equipped with 12-bolt have posi-rear ends while those with the 10-bolts (and there are some) are non-posi. The posi unit was optional. Most Pacers on file are equipped with the posi 12-bolt."

They go on to list 60 or so of the 84 registered pace cars. Also USCC had about 100 cars registered. ALL festival cars/pace replicas cars were RS/SS. The car I have personally seen with non-posi 10-bolt was coded 4P on the cowl tag meaning SS350 and had a 04A build date and "C-1" & "R" codes. It had all the rest of the correct codes.

Of the 11 documented Canadian cars built in June when A.J. Foyt's special air conditioning Pacer was built ALL had a 396/325 big block and ALL were identically equipped none are known to have ever had the door decals. Not sure where your 327 equipped canadian cars comes from or that disc brakes were an option. My info says disc brakes were mandatory.

If you have different info from what I have found by all means please post your references. I'd love to learn something new about these cars. All of my info pertains to the actual Festival cars (at Indy) (O-1 coded)and the replicas (C-1 coded).

Kurt, BTW great website.

[This message has been edited by 70 RS/Z-28 (edited 11-30-99).]

Here are the numbers from the car that started all this:

06C R
ST67 12667NOR138291
TR-732-Z C-1
WD 2ZGS 3SL
4N 5Y


Gentlemen and ladies, I have already formed my opinion about this car. Let me hear your thoughts.In addition to the Official Pace Car book by Crispino and Hooper, please read Super Chevy, February 1993. They have an interesting article about the Canadian Pace cars and the production numbers, as well as what Chevy dealers did when they could not get a Pacer.

Could you post the VIN.

I do not have the VIN handy, but I remember the last 6 digits fall between 237512 and 238642.

Could this car have been part of the Pacesetter Promotion that ran through June of 1967? Dealers could order a car and add the 500 decals. I have heard of 67 pace cars with a rear antennae option, have any of you?

If it was a SS it had a 12 bolt orig., maybe the car you saw with the 10 bolt had been changed. I have never seen a real SS, 67 that came with a 10 bolt and I've been playing with them for over 20 years

I have to disagree. I have a 1967 SS/RS 350 Convertible that came with a factory 10 Bolt, non posi, and 4 wheel non power drum brakes. It had no traction bar provision. The date code on the rear match the car. I have met other people who also have found 10 bolts in their SS'.



[This message has been edited by motorhd@ameritech.net (edited 12-03-99).]

I have to say I agree with Charlie (clill) on this one. *So far*, I have not seen a documented 67-8 SS w/ a 10 bolt. 69, yes.

CRG would love the data on a car that is otherwise. Please post it under a new thread. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

On this 67: No - after the 5Y code?
Could you post the actual VIN?
We have several pacers in our database w/ rear antennaes. No 67 had spoilers, so any car could get a rear antennae.

------------------
Kurt S.
www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

If the VIN is N237512 or N238642 it's a documented Canadian Pace Car equipped w/396/325 HP and Turbo 400 shipped between 6-19-67 and 6-23-67 which fits the build date perfectly (06C) I've also read, being a Canadian Car, it's posible to have it fully documented. Apparently GM Canada has copies of info pertaining to all car imported to Canada.

[This message has been edited by 70 RS/Z-28 (edited 12-03-99).]

[Since the original post I corrected some typos and added the words in square brackets[] - Rich]

A few tidbits:

The Pace Car book referenced was written by Donna Crispino. Hooper's name is also on the book, but Donna did most, if not all, of the work, and there is a lawsuit underway over these related issues.

Cars ordered by dealers in the pace car color scheme (but outside of the Replica ordering process and without the special paint or stripe) are not official Pace Car replicas (in my opinion).

[There were 12 Canadian L35/M40 replicas,
not 11. CRG has the GM shipping data on all of these cars - one was not reported on the shippers until August, as even though it was built 16 June it was not shipped until 6 July.]


The latest known non-Canadian replica is 06B, according to ICC. CRG has not confirmed this one [nor one from 06A]. The latest [non-Canadian replica] that CRG has specific data on is 05D. CRG believes the 06C Canadian cars were the last built, and the only ones [replicas] built in 06C. [Therefore if this is a genuine replica at all, it seems it must be one of the Canadian 12 L35/M40s.]

All 22 of the June Canadian cars had special clearcoat paint, which was coded on the trim tag as 0-1, not the C-1 that this car has.
The apparent absence of this code is inconsistent with it being a Canadian replica.

The Canadian cars had a fleet code, this
one doesn't. The apparent absence of this code is inconsistent with this being a [Canadian] pace car replica.

All known replicas have a blue nose stripe, indicated as a non-standard color change by the dash at the end of the option fields. The apparent absence of this code also militates against this being a pace car replica [either Canadian or US].

The Pacesetter cars were all L6 units[, could be coupe or convertible (most were coupes) and of any color. The purpose of the Pacesetter promotion was to sell cars, not replicas.]

The Canadian small-block replicas were 327/210HP non-SS cars that were otherwise optioned like SS models. Naturally, they had 10-bolts.

At the risk of irritating Motorhd, CRG has never seen a 10-bolt 1967-68 SS. CRG has data on thousands of first-gen Camaros. While theoretically possible (we think) under unusual special order circumstances, NONE have been documented, and without documentation, a 10-bolt 67-68 SS remains a theory rather than proven fact. There are also other explanations for 10-bolt cars that appear to be SS-350s. We encourage Motorhd to submit his data for review.

The 10-bolt "SS" cars documented in the Pace Car book are, I believe, the 327/210 non-SS cars. Donna wasn't aware that these were not SS cars until I called her this past weekend.

Regarding the VIN range N237512 to N238642,
these were shipped to Canada on 6/23. The first was built on 6/19, and the second on 6/20. [Note however that there was the 12th car that was shipped 7/6, even though it was built 6/16.]

Best wishes,

Rich Fields,
Coordinator, CRG


[This message has been edited by Rich Fields (edited 12-07-99).]

I was wondering if anyone has an email address for Donna Crispino? I would like to contact her! Thanks!

She is not online.

------------------
Kurt S.
www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

Hmm...thanks Kurt...I think she owns an '81 Yenko Turbo Z? Any idea if she still has it (or any other Yenkos?)? If possible, I would like to talk with her about it.

I don't recall. I'll find out for you. I know she knows something about them.
Drop me an email to remind me. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

------------------
Kurt S.
www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

Here are the numbers from the car that started all this:

06C R
ST67 12667NOR138291
TR-732-Z C-1
WD 2ZGS 3SL
4N 5Y


Gentlemen and ladies, I have already formed my opinion about this car. Let me hear your thoughts.In addition to the Official Pace Car book by Crispino and Hooper, please read Super Chevy, February 1993. They have an interesting article about the Canadian Pace cars and the production numbers, as well as what Chevy dealers did when they could not get a Pacer.


I recently was shared the VIN number and information on what I believe is this car.

VIN: 124677N238090

I agree with motohd that their a good possbility that this car could have been sold from a dealership as a pacecar replica as this is not one of the Canadian Centenial 4N big block cars as it doesn't have the 0-1 paint code, the "-" representing the blue nose stripe, and wasn't imported into Canada.

Their are "indications" that some dealers in the Western Ohio or Indy Zone (even as late as 06C, 3 weeks after the Indy 500) might have sold C-1 or C-4 (blue top) black nose cars as pace car replicas.

Its been shown that a handful of C-1 black nose (or possibly repainted to blue nose) cars were sold by dealers as pace car replicas before the Indy 500 and thier were also 10 authentic RS/SS C-4 blue top black nose cars that were driven by various high ranking Indy Zone Managers during the Indy 500 events but these cars were made the weeks of 04D and 05A).

I have a strong interest in locating either the present or past owner of this car as my wife and I have a 06C car built a day prior to this one and its very close to this one, except with a C-4 (blue top) code. As far as we know this might be the last C-4 (blue topper) deluxe blue interior car made in 1967.

Our Tag is:

06C R
ST67 12667NOR137159
TR-732-Z C-4
2LG 3L
4P

VIN: 124677N237440

If anyone knows the present or past owner of VIN 124677N238090 that's discussed in this older string I just revived please contact me.

Thanks.

Rick

Here's a link to what I've got posted over at the camaropacecars.comwebsite were I'm an active member....

http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1110094833/m/2140046135?r=7930022235#7930022235



Besides this a few very diligent members have been finding out a LOT more about the 21 or 22 Canadian built RS and RS/CC Pacers (week of 06C) and the Can-AM Cherokee(s) pacer (used in the US and Canada Can-Am series in 1967) and are also thought to have June build dates. Come on over and see what's being discovered and cleared up.

"Regarding the VIN range N237512 to N238642,
these were shipped to Canada on 6/23. The first was built on 6/19, and the second on 6/20. [Note however that there was the 12th car that was shipped 7/6, even though it was built 6/16.]

Best wishes,

Rich Fields,
Coordinator, CRG"


In an effort to save the super sleuths out there some time...the "12th" "Festival Car" - as in "Centennial Festival" (Mosport didn't use Pace Cars for the Indy Series until the '70's) mentioned above was purchased from a used car lot in Toronto in 1973 and was stolen from the owner's car port in the late '70's and has not been recovered.

Zedder,

Thanks for responding.

We have found out quite a few things about the Canadian Centential Festival cars these last few weeks and even added a new topic heading for them over at Camaropacecars.com

Here's the string....

http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/frm/f/1730031235


BTW - Its my understanding that these cars didn't pace the Indycar event at Mosport, but were used in the pre race activities at the Canadian Grand Prix held at Mosport in August 27, 1967 that was sponsored by Players.

Players also sponsored the Can-Am Challenge Cup later that summer/Fall at Mosport where one or two of the Cam-Am Camaro "Cherokee's" paced that event. These cars were very special/modified with 427's with fuel injection very similar to the actual chevrolet Can-Am cars that raced at the event. They were babies of GM's Mitchell and Piggins!

Going back to the Canadian Grand Prix pacers, the 8 RS 327 pacers appeared to have a GP logo on their passenger doors and the 11 or 12? RS/SS 396 pacers might have had the Player's logo/flag on one of their doors.

All this information was just released at the site and string found above.

I have particular interest in two 06C C-1 and C-4 car that were NOT imported with these 20 Canadian cars as they are perhaps what have been referred to by others as Dealership Replica-Replicas or are sometime referred to as Black nose cars....

Thanks for the link...the only "new" info there that I see is the ad for the Gorries' Car which is pretty neat! The Driver's parade shot came from me and I got it directly from the person who took it and posted it on that site in 2006. The others came from a very nice race enthusiast named Fred Young which I also recieved in 2006 and shared with a few other Pace Car enthusiasts. Fred's work can easily be found with a Google search.

As I have told many in the past including members from that site...these cars were used for numerous activities relating to the 1967 Centennial Celebrations and were trailered/driven to various races, parades and displays across Canada. Decals changed at the various events and usually included GM and Centennial logos/lettering at the more generic events. The small block cars (one of which I owned in 1979) were used in the same fashion. After the festivities were over, they were then offered to some GM dealer's to be sold off as demo vehicles. Known dealers who recieved these cars were in Ontario (3 at least), BC and Quebec. A friend of mine is an original owner of one of the BB cars and it sat on the dealer's lot for a year before being repainted blue and finally sold.

Thanks Mark!!!

It does appear that at least one of the BB cars was sold immediately after the GP race at Mosport, so this one didn't see much show/travel time...

But you saying these were Canadian Centenial Festival car with various sticker/door decals sure makes sense to me...

I've added your response to our string over at camaropacecars.com

I know you haven't been around (or posting) over at Camaropacecars for awhile and it would be awesome if you'd share some of these comments or information on at least the new Canadian Pacer area/string over there...

Rich

I haven't heard anything on this car yet but wanted to let people know I've stated a new link over at Camaropacecars.com that includes this car and several other potential cars that are referred to as "Black Nose" or RPO Dealership Replicas if anyones interested.

Here's the link which shows a list we are building of possible cars that are worth researching to determine how they were sold from the dealerships and interpreted by the original owners.....

http://camaropacecars.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/1490019733/m/4780049235/p/1

Just moving this to the top of the list.... I'm still looking for the car that started this posting back in Nov. of 1999. It must be out there somewhere??? Any leads would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.... :)
If not, take a look at my possible 1967 RPO dealership replica or Black noser list over at camaropacecars.com.... Any cars to add to the list?

Rick!!!

A Black noser??!!!???:D


It seems to me that you have a bad influence!:yes:

Tony,

I've learned from the best!!!!!! :thumbsup:

Nothings better, except a "Black Noser-Blue Topper"!!!! :D

I have a 6c convertible RS/SS 396 4 speed and the nose stripe on the original fender was blue with no black under it, I checked.
Ermine white, Bright blue deluxe int, disc brakes
I'm at work or I'd post the whole tag
I bought it 25 years ago (how time flies) It had been raced at OCIR for years and it was originally from texas
I bought a 67 396 4 speed RS/SS coupe at the time for parts, never got around to taking it apart.
Sorry i never post here, i read the forums often though :)

Hi Tim!!

PM is on it's way!:yes:

Ditto on that Tim!

Tony and I are from the same place.... www.camaropacecars.com

I'm excited to find another 06C car!

Hopefully we can chat about your car and I'll be happy to discuss other 06C's we know of with you.

well now i guess i was mistaken its a 6b oops

06B R
67-12667 NOR13xxxx
732-Z C-1
2LG 35L
4N 5Y

I looked at the coupe and it also has a dash on the color

CZA E165 night with a flashlight
67-12637 LOS 15xxx
765-Z R-2
EL 2LCR 3SL
4N 5Y
Coupes was heavy black paint ill have to look tomorrow to make sure on these

Hey Tim!

Thank you for sharing your car's info...would you mind PMing Rick or myself your VIN?
Do you know if the car came originally from Texas?
Any dealership documents ??
Thanks!

yes texas I'm up till 12 pst call me if you want