Yet, the stripes extend below the trunk lid.

Can this be correct?

Original Z (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6161&item=2479923643&rd=1)

No graemlins/sad.gif

The stripes could have been a very easy add and the rest of the car could be as described...

The man that own's that company (bob harris) know's a lot about 67 68 69 camaro's , I bought my 67 RS from him , if he say's the car is ligit I would say that it is , djd is right the stripe is added , the rest of the car is stock ,

Nice looking original sheet metal car and great numbers, but a lot of resto work ahead. Considering what this car is pulling for bids, some lucky buyer will be into this car for a lot of dough. Good score all the same.

Stripes were definitely added according to someones taste and are of little concern as the car is very legit.

The extended stripes are not of concern, just curious as I had never seen them like that, but anything is possible.

I assume this car falls under the group of cars built after Fisher body numbers on the trim tag were reset? "08A" means August of '69, correct?

Neat car, but getting to the point of being too expensive. Reserve not met at 20K. Would love to keep the car unrestored, but it might be too far gone.

Opinions, please.

Another question, please. This original car has the woodgrain steering wheel shroud, but does not have the woodgrain on the face of the glove box area.

Is this correct? What determines where the car's interior got the woodgrain trim?

Thanks.

The option you describe is the Special Interior Group RPO Z23.

It included wood-grain accents on the steering wheel, instrument panel, assist grip with trim plate on instrument panel, and bright brake and clutch pedal trim.

If the car was ordered with the Z87 Option then it also came with the Rosewood Dash on the passenger side.

A D55 Console car would have received only the instrument cluster with rosewood trim

As for the fisher body number, they were reset in late 69 production. I thought it was September but perhaps it was August. Maybe someone else can answer that better.

graemlins/beers.gif

I believe the woodgrain on the glovebox area was for the deluxe interiors. The carb must have been replaced at one time, looks like it's dated 821 or something close to that. What a find.

Originally posted by 69SSConvertible:
The extended stripes are not of concern, just curious as I had never seen them like that, but anything is possible.That's all you asked about... :confused: ;)

Yes, that's all I asked about, but "not of concern" means it would not stop me from buying this car.

"100% original paint means just that", and striping is part of it. I was curious if it was possible for a Z to have had its stripes painted in such a manner from the factory.

"possible" yes, "likely" no

one off oddities like a 68 Z28 convertible and Bill Mitchell's ZL1 Camaro say it is "possible" to have just about anything made "at the factory" (or the Engineering Center).

However, it is not "likely" this car came from the "factory" this way, unless the paint code showed a "special", and it does not.

Lots of dealers catered to buyers whims (Dana, Motion, Yenko, Berger, etc) and would deliver just about anything

The garish stripes of the Baldwin Motion cars would lend some creditbility that this car MAY have been "delivered" that way, but not from the factory, PERHAPS from the dealer ... or one of the "customizers" that always add additonal dealer profit to the cars (can you say "gold package"?)

FWIW, there is a local (Phoenix area) original 69 Z that has had those same stripes on it for 30 years (although not a rusty hulk and yellow with black). It DID NOT come from the dealer/factory that way, the 2nd owner thought they looked "cool" and had them done in 1974.

MAYBE there was some car done that toured the ISCA shows then or MAYBE someone saw one in a magazine and they wanted one striped like that too ... hard to tell after that many years, check the 67-70 Hot Rods, Car Craft, PHR, etc mags

MAYBE even SOMEONE painted a 68 or even a 67 Z28 that way and the idea was applied to the 69 as well ...

Anyway, as you stated that ONE feature should not sway one from the "big picture" of this car, nice old rusty unmolested low mileage car.

The thought that there is nearly 7 days left and RESTORED cars can be bought for nearly the same price lends justice the PT Barnum's famous saying ...

[ 05-27-2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: al8apexer ]

IMO, this car doesn't really fall into the survivor category. I understand the desire to understand the origin of the stripes, but this car is really far gone. To me, 100% original paint on the car means nothing because it needs new sheet metal and paint anyway. I would be curious if there really is a trend to keep cars this bad in unrestored condition.

John,
I would disagree with you on this one. No way is it possible those paint stripes are factory. Chevrolet was not into custom stripes. There was no masking or layouts or design to paint those on a car. They were making cars at one a minute, not custom cars. And the car is not a - paint code.
I've heard of a dealer reputedly doing that to a car, but probably an early owner painted them.

And the Z convertible wasn't difficult to build. There was no engineering to do, just a different combination of parts than the system allowed.

Originally posted by al8apexer:


The thought that there is nearly 7 days left and RESTORED cars can be bought for nearly the same price lends justice the PT Barnum's famous saying ... Restored numbers matching Z for close to $22,500? :confused:

gary L you are correct that in todays market $22.500 for a restored Z is low , but the neat thing about this car is the fact that it is a REAL 1969 Z/28 camaro !!!
they are ton's and ton's of Z/28's out there way more than were ever made , in fact if you go to any car show or cruz in night it is hard to find a 1969 camaro that is not a Z/28 (or that doe's not have Z emblem's ) at least with this car you KNOW it IS A Z/28 nobody can ever say it is not !! that would make this one worth more to me and a lot of other people also , :D :D

RS3S:

You are exactly correct about real Z28's. I bought a real X33 w/o a DZ engine in need of TLC and bunches of money to make it nice. I rarely see real Z28's at local shows, except one that belongs to a friend of mine.

My point was that for John Rohn to say restored matching numbers Z28's go for close to $22,500 is way off. $30,000 is probably closer to the real number. I doubt anyone on this site would let their's go for $22,500. I wouldn't and I have $7k minimum to go. Just my $.02.
graemlins/beers.gif
Gary

[ 05-28-2004, 05:40 AM: Message edited by: Gary L ]

"at least with this car you KNOW it IS A Z/28 nobody can ever say it is not !!"

No mention of paperwork on this car. No mention, even, of a matching numbers drivetrain. Assume nothing in today's muscle car market.

Assume this....

An unrestored original matching numbers Z28 today is worth about 20K + if it also needs restored.

A restored original matching numbers car is worth about 37K plus if totally restored.

Add 5K for a fully documented car is a good average to work from.

A low mileage fully documented car with original sheet metal, total owner history by documents, and not requiring a restoration. (PRICELESS)

I have seen many Z/28's sell in the 35 to 40K range recently and believe this to be fair market value. I have also seen some real nice RS optioned Z's go in the 45-55K range and this is more the normal these days.

Watch for these cars to climb in value over the next few years as the baby boomers with disposable inclome chew more of them up leaving less for the young enthusiast.

graemlins/beers.gif

69SSCONVERTIBLE:

"True survivor" and the build dates offered made me assume it is numbers matching. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Gary

Originally posted by hugger_sixty_nine:
Assume this....

A low mileage fully documented car with original sheet metal, total owner history by documents, and not requiring a restoration. (PRICELESS) graemlins/beers.gif :D :cool: graemlins/beers.gif graemlins/thumbsup.gif graemlins/hurray.gif

I think its possible that a dealer could have been doing that. I bought a z/28 that came from the northern VA. area (124379N569319) that had the stripes extended down like that over the original Dover white paint. I have also seen 2 other one like that in bone yards. Probably just a "THING" back in the day.

With prices like this going up al the time you have to remember to raise you insurance value of you Z/28s. I myself has done that for every year now.

Think about what if your beloved car gets totaled? And your insurance value is only half of what it takes to buy another one.

There was one unhappy fellow over here that got his really awsome 69 SS totaled because of an man rammed the Camaro from the side. Lucky for him no one was hurt physically but the Camaro owners spirit was lost for a while. He got a big lot of money from the insurance and could keep the car to use as a donor to build a new one. But after working on a car for four years and get it totaled just when you take it out is devastating.

So call the insurance company and let them send you a higher bill next time


Jan

That brings up an interesting point about values in this fast changing hobby. It seems unrestored cars have finally come into their own, if in good condition. I also have "stated value" collector car insurance. I wonder what my car is worth, an unrestored, 1969 Camaro SS350, 67,000mi, 4 speed, ZL2 from factory, console, gauges, posi, Ivory Houndstooth in perfect condition, Hugger orange original paint in excellent condition, Endura, chassis marks and overspray still intact, never driven in rain, all options factory installed, chassis sheet, POP, invoice, every maintainance and service record since new, (on the cover of 2004 GM Camaro Calendar by Richard Lions, Browntrout Pub.)?

2004 Camaro calendar by Dan Lyons, (sorry Dan).

Beautiful huggar Oaklyss... I hope you have agreeded value insurance not stated... Stated is what you get on your daily drivers. Agreeded is the only coverage that they have to pay you the agreeded value... The ins company will tell you the stated value depreciates and if you have a claim they will reference local recent sales (SS is the same as a plane jane to them) and settle based on the market.

Originally posted by OAKLYSS:
(on the cover of 2004 GM Camaro Calendar by Richard Lions, Browntrout Pub.)Oaklyss,

Send me a picture and I will post it to my web site under visitors rides. I am always looking for nice additions to our growing list of 1969 photo's. I have a page for each model specific type of 69 Camaro. Take a look at the site by visiting http://www.x33d80.com/home.htm and selecting Visitors Rides from the menu bar. Some nice cars pictured here.

Graeme

Here is a $22.5K restored one, options too, matching # according to seller, right here in the Camaros Net for sale pages:

http://www.camaros.net/cgi-bin/cyber/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=28834&exact_match=on&photo_size=full

makes that rusty hulk look like ... the new generation of rat rods, rat muscle cars, "Muscle Rat"?

think of it, no one will have to restore their cars anymore. All those fancy repainted Chevelles/Novas/Mustangs/Camaros/MoPars can show their real self, rusted beyond belief.

Hard earned money will no lnger have to be spent finding NOS parts, any NAPA/AutoZone/Checker/Murry's?Pep Boys alternator/water pump will do, Who cares if the numbers don't match? How many distributors were tossed back then anyway for the ACCEL distributor?

Judging would have 5 (minimum) mandatory aftermarket parts: carb, exhaust (headers and/OR Cherry Bomb(s)- EXTRA points for Thrush side exhaust, air shocks, L60 Mohawk tires and a free one of the owner's choice.

No reason to look for rust-free CA, AZ, NV or TX cars anymore.

slap some whitewall snow tires on the back and it would feel right at home in the salt of PA (or OH, MI, NY, NJ) winter roads.

I gotta think this new trend in rusty cars has some merit. Make sure the period FM convertor is hanging from the dash with the 8 track "hidden in the glove box. EVERYONE will swarm to this at shows and say they had one, or it looked just like theirs did, or whatever.

Rust never sleeps, so why cover it up?

Whattaya think?

smile.gif

Originally posted by al8apexer:
Here is a $22.5K restored one, options too, matching # according to seller, right here in the Camaros Net for sale pages:

http://www.camaros.net/cgi-bin/cyber/classifieds.cgi?search_and_display_db_button=on&db_id=28834&exact_match=on&photo_size=full

smile.gif How do you have a numbers matching 383 stroker in a 69 Z28. I think the definition of numbers matching has just taken a leap forward. :eek:

original block I guess

and that price is OBO too ....

as long as it says DZ, it must be

If the date code is correct and correct casting number, it IS the original block then, right?

tell me how many internals of SS 350, 396 and Z28 "show" cars are "factory "stock"

Most have at least a hotter/better cam added and modern technology parts/assembly pricedures to ensure reliability

;)

From the owner:

Stroked 1972 400cu. block 350 crank stoked. Other Nos. heads, DZ 4053 carb, 1111480 Dist. etc. match. 410 BV code posi M-21 4speed org shifter. 5C Build May 69 X-77

I thought you get a 377 when you stroke a 400 block, not a 383 :confused:

That's actually "destroked" and I believe like the 350 with a 400 crank a .030" over bore will give you 383...

On eBay again...

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6161&item=2481527730&rd=1