As requested, here are the tag, rear end, and VIN numbers.
TAG: ST69 12437
VN221891
TR723 59S
F341
Trans: P9I19A (?)
Rear end: BU
VIN: 124379L516194

Is this a true numbers matching '69 Z/28?
Need help quickly.

Thanks

By what I can make out here, you have a LA built 69 V-8 car that is frost green in color with the midnight green standard interior. It has the 3:73 posi rear end in it with the muncie 4 spd trans in it.

The thing that I dont see is the X33 or X77 on the trim tag for a Z28.

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67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.

Hate to say, this isn't enough info. It helps though. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

It's a January built car, but the engine is 0925 if I recall. Way to early for that car. So unless it has the matching VIN stamped on it by the oil filter or on the engine pad, I'd say it isn't original. You may find a different VIN on the block which would also prove it is not original.

Trans - The code look better. It's a M20 from 69. Could the I be a T? The only letters it can be is: A,B,C,D,E,H,K,M,P,R,S,T.

Rearend - part way there. 3.73 posi. But we need the date to see if it is original to this car. Should be like BU0106G1.

No X33 or X77 codes cause this is an LA car. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

But the trans and rearend could be original. If so, looks like it ***could*** be a Z.

So here is your list of things to check:
I or T in the trans code.
VIN on the trans (near trans code (or on top of the trans if the trans is out of the car)
Rest of the axle code.
Single fuel line, 3/8" in size.
VIN on the engine.
Build date of the car - should be on the trim tag next to the F341. Should be like 01?.

I'd appreciate hearing what you find. Please post your response to this item instead of starting a new topic.
If you want, you can email me at ksonen@visteon.com.

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Kurt S.
www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)




[This message has been edited by Kurt S (edited 08-29-2000).]

Post it here, I would like to see what comes of this. Good Luck!!

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurt S:
Hate to say, this isn't enough info. It helps though. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

It's a January built car, but the engine is 0925 if I recall. Way to early for that car. So unless it has the matching VIN stamped on it by the oil filter or on the engine pad, I'd say it isn't original. You may find a different VIN on the block which would also prove it is not original.

Trans - The code look better. It's a M20 from 69. Could the I be a T? The only letters it can be is: A,B,C,D,E,H,K,M,P,R,S,T.

Rearend - part way there. 3.73 posi. But we need the date to see if it is original to this car. Should be like BU0106G1.

No X33 or X77 codes cause this is an LA car. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

But the trans and rearend could be original. If so, looks like it ***could*** be a Z.

So here is your list of things to check:
I or T in the trans code.
VIN on the trans (near trans code (or on top of the trans if the trans is out of the car)
Rest of the axle code.
Single fuel line, 3/8" in size.
VIN on the engine.
Build date of the car - should be on the trim tag next to the F341. Should be like 01?.

I'd appreciate hearing what you find. Please post your response to this item instead of starting a new topic.
If you want, you can email me at ksonen@visteon.com.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for your interest and help, Kurt. I will visit the seller today, and try to use your suggestions to get more data.

I believe the car was originally green with a green interior. I was told by the seller (who doesn't seem to know too much about matching numbers on a car - kind of like myself) that the body color was changed. It's now Daytona Yellow, but from researching it more, it looks like the interior was also changed to black.

Isn't 3-6 months lagtime acceptable for the engine code?

Are you saying that Los Angeles didn't stamp the X33 or X77 codes on the trim tag?

I'll let you know what I find out. The car is owned locally. Both the seller and I live in Jackson, MI.

Talk to you soon.

I live in Grand Ledge (just outside of Lansing) and have a 69Z. e-mail me or let me know of any questions you have. I've researched these cars a lot and my be able to help you.

harkey,

The Van Nuys (or L.A.) plant did not use "X" codes on the cowl tag. Therefore, it is much more difficult to document a VN car without the original engine.

If the seller were willing, you could drop the gas tank and see if the broadcast sheet was still attached to the top of the tank. However, even if it's there, it may not be legible. Sometimes you get lucky.

From what I have read, engines were not stockpiled several months in advance. It was more like a couple of weeks, tops. The amount of time between the body build date and engine assembly date can vary based on a number of factors, one being the time of year the car was built.

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Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 8/13/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by kurt6325:
I live in Grand Ledge (just outside of Lansing) and have a 69Z. e-mail me or let me know of any questions you have. I've researched these cars a lot and my be able to help you. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks, Kurt

Most of my problem stems from trying to identify the numbers I've listed in my two previous e-mails on this site. This car is being promoted as a Z/28 original with all numbers matching except exterior paint.

If you could identify the code of F341 off of the trim tag, it would help.

Also any other info. regarding the numbers I've posted in previous e-mails on this site.

Right now, this looks like a car that could have a DZ engine, trans, and rear end, but maybe the body wasn't really a "Z".

Thanks again for your interest!

Kurt and Harkey....the car should be a 01B build. The data you supplied matches up with the cars around you (91 before yours and 385 after) so the tag matches up.

The F341 is an internal LA "work order" code and dosen't tell you much.

One thing of note, Kurt, is that this car falls into a group where the "work order" code runs backwards in sequence (F532 before F485 before F436, etc.). Have you ever seen this before? I also have a series of cars during the 01D week that does the same thing....

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Steve McCorry - Central Ohio Camaro Club
'69 Camaro RS/SS-350 - Daytona Yellow
'95 Camaro Z-28 - Sebring Silver
click here to see my car ---&gt; www.mindspring.com/~mccorry (http://www.mindspring.com/~mccorry)(updated 8/14/00)

[This message has been edited by mccorry (edited 08-29-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by mccorry:
Kurt and Harkey....the car should be a 01B build. The data you supplied matches up with the cars around you (91 before yours and 385 after) so the tag matches up.

The F341 is an internal LA "work order" code and dosen't tell you much.

One thing of note, Kurt, is that this car falls into a group where the "work order" code runs backwards in sequence (F532 before F485 before F436, etc.). Have you ever seen this before? I also have a series of cars during the 01D week that does the same thing....

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Kurt and Mccorry: Well, after a couple of hours with the seller tonight, here's the latest I could come up with.

Trim tag: 01B, TR=723 59 S (what's the S for?

Block: V0925DZ (No sequence no. anywhere - not on or around oil filter base, or on front pad of engine)engine has also been repainted.

Block casting #: 3932386

Trans:P9T19A (191516194 - matches VIN!)
trans. casting #: 3950306

Rear axle code: BU0109G2 (what's BU, and the G2?) There's also an "E" underneath the code#.

VIN: 124379L516194

Also, there is only one fuel line. What was the fuel return line for?

You guys are good! Thanks for your efforts so far. I can't wait to hear from you again. While this may not be a perfect matching numbers car, my only desire was to get a true DZ motor, trans, and rear in a '69 Camaro. I'm feeling pretty sure that I have at least found that. What do you think?

J. Harkey

[This message has been edited by harkey (edited 08-29-2000).]

The S on the trim tag stands for a Green Vinyl top. The 01B tells us its a 2nd week of Jan. '69 car.

Block: V0925DZ - 302ci/290hp Z/28 engine assembled Sept. 25th 1968 or 1969 (not sure which).
Block casting #: 3932386 - Matches up for a 69 vintage 302/290 or 350/300 motor

Rear axle code: BU0109G2 -
The BU stands for a 3.73 Positraction rear
0109 - assembled Jan. 9th, 1969
G - assembled at Detroit Gear and Axle
2 - on the second shift
E - Originally fitted with an Eaton Positraction carrier

Your findings show that the tranny is original to the car...and I would say the rear is also. I really have doubts about the block being the original...but anything is possible.

The single fuel line is correct for a Z. The return line was used for cars fitted with a Rochester or Carter carb.

Overall, I would agree that what you have there is an original Z car....

I hope this helps,

------------------
Steve McCorry - Central Ohio Camaro Club
'69 Camaro RS/SS-350 - Daytona Yellow
'95 Camaro Z-28 - Sebring Silver
click here to see my car ---&gt; www.mindspring.com/~mccorry (http://www.mindspring.com/~mccorry)(updated 8/14/00)

The block casting # 3932386 would indicate a May 68 - Dec 68 302 or SS350 block. Jerry Macneish has a documented 386 block in his book with the stampings: V0926DZ and VIN of 19N516015. That says your engine is a Sep 68 engine. The VIN #'s seem to be close, but the production level between the 2 plants wasn't the same. Put it this way, if you can't find a VIN on the engine, then you can't prove it isn't the original engine! My car is an April Z28 and the original trans that matches the protect-o-plate is a Jan 6th transmission, 3 full months. I think you're in good shape.

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Jeff H - 93 Indy 500 Pace Car(supercharged), Hugger Orange 69 Z28 with JL8 brakes & crossram

You guys always blow me away. What I find interesting is the documentation of the internal codes that are on the trim tags. It might be that GM had quota's and to keep some kind of track to where they were in terms of production and thats why the sequences go backwards. What thoughts do you guys have on this theory?

F= F-Body #341, 340 left to build for the month? Maybe the week?

Just a theory.

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Tim (http://www.geocities.com/sixt7ssrs/CAR2.jpg)
67 ss/rs (http://www.geocities.com/sixt7ssrs2/Mvc-562f.jpg), MODIFIED (http://www.geocities.com/sixt7ssrs/main.html)
Tim's Homepage (http://www.geocities.com/sixt7ssrs)
AOL-IM = sixtsevnss

[This message has been edited by sixtsevnssrs (edited 08-30-2000).]

You did a good job finding the #'s.

I'll repeat some the things said above:
Trans is original. Date is Dec 19, 68.
Rear is almost sure to be original.
Single fuel line was used with Holleys (return line was for Quadrajets)

I'd put some money on that it is not the orignal engine. Could be wrong, but they were running real close to the engines in January, normally within a couple of days, not 3 months.

So it is a Z with a different motor in it. Now focus on what is important: condition. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

F341 is an internal sequencing #. It does not mean much except to the plant when the car was built.

------------------
Kurt S.
www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

sixsevnssrs,

Not all work order numbers begin with "F", so the F definitely doesn't stand for F-body.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kurt S:
You did a good job finding the #'s.

I'll repeat some the things said above:
Trans is original. Date is Dec 19, 68.
Rear is almost sure to be original.
Single fuel line was used with Holleys (return line was for Quadrajets)

I'd put some money on that it is not the orignal engine. Could be wrong, but they were running real close to the engines in January, normally within a couple of days, not 3 months.

So it is a Z with a different motor in it. Now focus on what is important: condition. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

F341 is an internal sequencing #. It does not mean much except to the plant when the car was built.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
What you're saying is that I probably have Z with a different DZ motor in it, right?

I'm OK with that, because the condition of the car is immaculate. No new sheet metal, no rust, etc. The frame rails are perfectly smooth and painted, as are the floorboards.

Interior is also almost perfect. One small seam tear on the headliner (appx. 1/2" long). The tach seems a little lazy (registering too low)through the higher rpm range. Hopefully inexpensive to fix?)

I wish I could have found the sequence no. on the block. Someone said it should be on the outer part of the bellhousing mounting area next to the oil filter. I may take another stab at finding it the next time I'm over there.

Oh yeah, do you think that the body could have been something other than a Z when built? Is there any way to know other than matching the sequence number with that on the VIN?

Thanks again for all your help!

Jerry

[This message has been edited by harkey (edited 08-30-2000).]

The SS350 shared a lot of components with the Z28, power disc brakes, 12 bolt rear, often had console/gauges, but the SS350 would have 2 fuel lines coming from the tank(1 is a return line) and the SS350 would have 5 leaf rear springs where the Z28 would have the 4 leaf rear springs. The tach redline should be 6000 rpm's for the Z28 and 5500 for the SS350. It's pretty easy to build a fake if you have the knowledge of how to do it. If your frame of mind is that it probably isn't the original #'s matching engine, but it has all the right parts that you want, then that's a good way to look at it. To build a solid Z28 clone with all the correct parts would cost somewhere in the mid teens probably. Hope this helps.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff H:
The SS350 shared a lot of components with the Z28, power disc brakes, 12 bolt rear, often had console/gauges, but the SS350 would have 2 fuel lines coming from the tank(1 is a return line) and the SS350 would have 5 leaf rear springs where the Z28 would have the 4 leaf rear springs. The tach redline should be 6000 rpm's for the Z28 and 5500 for the SS350. It's pretty easy to build a fake if you have the knowledge of how to do it. If your frame of mind is that it probably isn't the original #'s matching engine, but it has all the right parts that you want, then that's a good way to look at it. To build a solid Z28 clone with all the correct parts would cost somewhere in the mid teens probably. Hope this helps.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You pose another good point regarding the rear leaf springs. I counted 5 leafs if I include the very short one on the bottom of the spring assy. I'm beginning to think that this was not originally a car built as a Z/28.