I am interested if anyone knows anything about the way the Norwood and Van Nuys plants stamped or punched through the trunk sheet metal on an RS camaro to access the rear reverse lights electrical cord. The stamp or punch is a small hole in the sheet metal where the black rubber gromet is inserted and the copper wire is fed through. The question is that I have seen some holes that look like they were stamped clean and others that look like they were punched from the top down. I will try and post some pictures tomorrow of the two versions I have pictures. Anyone have any thoughts.

A quick guess would be that they were set up in a jig, and punched with a die. When the die was new, the hole would be punched clean. After a while, the die would get a little dull and push the metal somewhat before cutting the hole. Sound plausible?

Here's mine smile.gif

http://www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS/Trunk/RSbackupwirehole.JPG

Thats what I was going to mention: you notice the semi-circle 'relief' in the tail light panel brace where the brace is welded to the trunk floor? Only an original RS car will have that. Always good to see that when you open the trunk smile.gif

ruquikr,
That's an excellent piece of information.
Thanks

ruquikr, very good point, you beat me to it. That is very difficult to replicate, without removing the braces and reinstalling them.

Wow! You guys are awesome. Great info!

Here's mine:

http://hobbystage.net/camaro/media.cgi?site=jonesy&folder=*&group=1&page=*&id=1021153165-000051

Did Chevrolet include this notched brace for all RS cars 67-69? I checked my car and found there were no notches in the braces, plus the wires are slightly further away from the braces than in the two 69's pictured. My reverse light cutouts do look stamped, but I suppose someone could have welded on an original RS tail panel to convert my car.

I checked my 67 rs ss no notch, wires are about 3/4 inch away from brace.

Originally posted by ruquikr:
notice the semi-circle 'relief' in the tail light panel brace where the brace is welded to the trunk floor? Only an original RS car will have that. Always good to see that when you open the trunk smile.gif Sorry, but all the '69 tail pan braces have that relief. Besides a bunch of RS cars, I have 10 non-RS cars, and I just checked every one, and ALL of them have that relief.

My Bad!! I thought I heard it somewhere - must be another old wives tale. My 68 GM documented RS has them...

I checked my 69 rs/z built 3b and it has the reliefs. I also checked my 69 x44 built 3b and it did not have the reliefs. Both cars are orig metal cars . I also looked at another survivor X22 coded built 3d and it has reliefs. I will check further, but I have seen it both ways. Possibly it has something to do with base trim.

Maybe it has to do with Norwood vs. Van Nuys assembly??

Mine are all Norwood cars, if that helps.

They are all built after 12C also.

The notch in the support is probably a guide for the punch tool, so the hole is positioned correctly in the floor pan.

Mine are Norwood cars also.

Wow. Great information. Mine is a VanNuys car and I have the notch, but my punch out is not as clean as the two pictured above. I know I have an orginal SS car, but still trying to figure out whether I have an RS. Did all the 69 RS cars come with the headlight washers? What are the other ways to tell? Dan

Yes, all '69 RS Camaros had headlight washers. You should have a headlight squirter solenoid mounted to your wiper motor. Also, the numbers stamped on the end of the motor should be 5045605.
Hope that helps,
Doug

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3616975/1101451144475_MVC_084F.JPG

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3616975/1101451144475_MVC_084F.JPG

Here are a couple of examples. The solenoid on this unit is missing a critical tube that contained a small spring and slider valve.

http://images.andale.com/f2/115/106/3616975/1102541428281_MVC_086F.JPG

Click on this for a shot of the solenoid.
Doug

fwiw, the holes on my 68 rs are inboard more, about 3/4 of an inch, as others mentioned. and no stamp-out in the brace.
also, so the 69 rs wiper motor is a specific number? i've got one, is it worth anything?

The motors are getting harder to find so Id say yes. A refreshed combo motor and solenoid on ebay a few months ago fetched over $500.
Here is pic of solenoid and the nozzeles that are bolted in front and above the headlights. smile.gif
Any RS without these items is missing very expensive parts.

http://www.brainerd.net/~knudsen/69RS/headlightSol-washers1.JPG

hmm, interesting. its in good shape, but it doesn't have the solenoid anymore, i sold it to somebody from minnesota, know the guy, click ;)

69VanNuys, for what it's worth my 69 was originally a 6cyl with a column shift (nothing special) and it has the radius in the brace. I drilled out the dimple to run the wires for the backup lights. I'm currently making it into a RS/SS clone.

Man, I learn a lot at this site! So, still no conclusion on the punch out, but some good discussion about the wiper motor. Thanks, Z28Doug and Click, I will check my wipper motor tomorrow, looking for the 5045605 stamp.

I have a standard base convt. that is a oct. or nov. car and it has the notches.

Yep, I know that guy that sold that solenoid smile.gif

Hi guys, I am currently tearing down my car and it looks like I'm missing the solenoid on my wiper motor. I take it that they don't make a repro solenoid?

you are right,not repo'd anywhere, and by themselves they show up rarely on ebay and fetch $200 or more. check salvage yards if they have any old RS models laying around, they are worth a mint. A photo of it close up is in your question thread in Resto section.

Just to follow up, my bad, my X44 coded car does have the radius cut into the bracket. Can't figure out how I missed that the first time I looked.

so did you sell that solenoid click? makes no never mind to me, but i was curious as to if you had got around to putting it on yet or not graemlins/thumbsup.gif

My '69 02D non-RS also has the relief in the brace; I'd expect it to be in all 69's.

I still have the solenoid and its going on this winter in the garage when I detail under the hood. smile.gif

cool, it will be very cool to see an rs with all of the correct appendages, i swear every time i see an 69rs i look for the washer solenoid, and have yet to see one. it will add a nice touch to your already nice car graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Thanks, I also always look for that little bugger on an RS at shows. Amazing on ebay to see so many 69 RS cars sold without it. A shame too. Its a neat option.

Originally posted by 68rs406:
cool, it will be very cool to see an rs with all of the correct appendages, i swear every time i see an 69rs i look for the washer solenoid, and have yet to see one. it will add a nice touch to your already nice car graemlins/thumbsup.gif It's just one of those deals where over the 35 year life span the wiper motors failed at some point and when replacement time came who cared about headlight washers.

I'm looking for some white plastic tubing to repair the broken piece that runs through the coil on mine so I can install it as well...

I heard once that a few other GM cars had similar thing but I dont recall which ones, maybe corvette ? That would be another place to look if I could recall that.

Originally posted by DjD:
I'm looking for some white plastic tubing to repair the broken piece that runs through the coil on mine so I can install it as well... [/QB]Dennis,
If you find something that will work please let me know. It's got to be able to accomadate (sp.?) the spring and slider valve. One end of that tube has to be smaller on the inside and angled... (as I'm sure you know) smile.gif

Originally posted by click:
I heard once that a few other GM cars had similar thing but I dont recall which ones, maybe corvette ? That would be another place to look if I could recall that. Click,
Check the '69 Caprice with the hide-away headlights. I think that solenoid is identical.

I have posted some pictures for further discussion. The link, http://www.kravets.net/picturepost.htm

contains a picture of the stamp/punch from a '69 RS/SS 350. Note that the punch is not as clean as others posted.

I also posted a picture of the wiper motor. I think the solenoid is attached. Is there a good reference on how the washer fluid system should be hooked up? I am missing the tubes and fluid container. Cheers for a good New Year.

The link in my reply did not work. Try this:

http://www.kravets.net/picturepost.htm

Thats the solenoid, pull that sucker off there and clean it up carefully. Be carefull pulling old hoses off those tubes, they might be brittle plastic tubes after 30 some years.
smile.gif

Thats very interesting - not a very clean hole at all.
Do you guys think there's a chance that som RS' were done 'on the fly'? I.E. the notch is always there in later models so if an RS needs to be assembled, the line worker could use a manual tool of some sort where necessary? Or is the build process always nailed down well beforehand?
Then maybe its just a worn out punch used in the rougher examples...

Each body was identified on a Fisher Body "run sheet" with its specs before the first pieces were welded together, so the pieces from all the off-line subassemblies came together correctly on the underbody line, and later on the framing line. That hole was pierced in the rear compartment pan subassembly weld fixture when Z22 was specified on the run sheet, before the rear crossbar was welded to the rear rails; the run sheet also called out for the Z22 rear valance panel with the stamped/pierced holes for the backup lights. graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Thanks, Click. Any posts or information on how the hoses should be run for the washer fluid system? I have the wiper motor and solenoid, but no hoses running to any of the sprayers.

JohnZ: thats cool stuff graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I have two '69's in the garage right now, and went out to check out this notch thing in the trunk as soon as I saw this post.

My 05C X11 RS/SS convertible DOES have the notches for the hole in the trunk, and everything points to it being a real RS/SS.

My 06A X33D80 is not an RS car, and DOES NOT have the notches.

Looks like this is a good way to look for real RS cars. Does everyone agree?

Originally posted by 69SSConvertible:
My 05C X11 RS/SS convertible DOES have the notches for the hole in the trunk, and everything points to it being a real RS/SS.

My 06A X33D80 is not an RS car, and DOES NOT have the notches.

Looks like this is a good way to look for real RS cars. Does everyone agree? I think the answer is a definitive "no" according to the information gathered from this post thus far. The notches do not seem to indicate anything in particular about cars being RS or not.

Many of us wish it was that easy...

Just checked mine ('69 RS/SS-350 Van Nuys car) and it has the notches in the supports.

Here is a photo of the RS solenoid mounted in place, but the wires and plugs are the wrong colors....

http://www.wideopenwest.com/~mccorry/images/misc/HLWasher.jpg

Mines a 11d car (rs/ss) with the notch really defined on the right side but on the left side its bareley even noticeable. Looks like the stamping machine was alittle off.

FWIW, have two 69s in the shop right now. One a true RS, but was clipped in the 70s with a non RS rear half. Notches but no holes. Same for the other car, which is a base car.

It doesnt make sense for them to use two different braces in the trunk depending on RS or not. Thats not like GM, especially for something so insignificant to appearance and function. They used the notched braces on all of them, enabling them to use the same brace for all cars, with the hole in the floor being the difference.

dave

Originally posted by RamAirDave:
FWIW, have two 69s in the shop right now. One a true RS, but was clipped in the 70s with a non RS rear half. Notches but no holes. Same for the other car, which is a base car.

It doesnt make sense for them to use two different braces in the trunk depending on RS or not. Thats not like GM, especially for something so insignificant to appearance and function. They used the notched braces on all of them, enabling them to use the same brace for all cars, with the hole in the floor being the difference.

dave

Again, a non-RS, 06A x33D80 car sits in my garage, WITHOUT the notches.

Originally posted by 69SSConvertible:
Again, a non-RS, 06A x33D80 car sits in my garage, WITHOUT the notches. Speaking for Norwood X coded cars, could the notch thing be for X11,X22 & X33 cars only? This would mean that they would also be included for Z21 cars (exterior chrome trim). Don't forget, we are only talking about what Fisher did when preparing the bodies. Could it be that if they got an order for a style trim car, they put the notched supports in the body?

Anyone have the notch on an X44,X55,X66 or X77 Norwood body?

I know this contradicts your car Chris but just trying to see if there is a pattern. Does your car have original documentation?

I agree that it makes no sense to change the bracket style for the RS optioned cars only.

Perhaps Fisher was getting these parts from different suppliers? Maybe company "A" was making braces without the radius (slightly cheaper?) and company "B" made them with the radius. Just a thought...with so many Camaro's made they might have changed suppliers or bought bulk from whomever was able to deliver the quickest.

Thats what I was going to mention: you notice the semi-circle 'relief' in the tail light panel brace where the brace is welded to the trunk floor? Only an original RS car will have that. Always good to see that when you open the trunk smile.gif

To clarify: Just because the notches are present, that is not an indicator of an RS car. Body shells were not committed (at the weld-together stage) to be RS or non-RS cars. Many cars, RS or NON-RS, will have the small semi-circle relief in the bumper support brackets. On a non-RS car, there will be a locating dimple in the floorpan sheetmetal (located roughly at the center point of the imaginary "circle" of the relief in the bracket) which is where the assembly person would fabricate the hole for the wire pigtail and grommet to feed through on an RS optioned car.

I have seen original RS cars (LA and NOR, with and without the reliefs in the brackets, and I have two original NON-RS LA 69's with the reliefs and the locating dimples.

The relief in the bracket may have been eliminated at some point, since it appears to serve no useful function...even without it, there is ample clearance for the pigtail grommet...There may be some correlation between build date and presence/absence of reliefs in the brackets.

Were is this on the car and what are u looking 4?????

My 12 A has clean punches on the brace but my car did not come with the washers but did have the solenoid on my orginal washer pump. It was my understanding that you I had to check the box and at that time , I did not. Poor boy.

To clarify: Body shells were not committed (at the weld-together stage) to be RS or non-RS cars.

Yes, they were; the RS or non-RS rear valance panel was scheduled and welded to the rear crossbar in the rear compartment pan subassembly fixture (which also contained the pierce cylinder for the RS grommet hole), and was finish-welded to the rear quarters in the body framing line.
:beers:

Yes, they were; the RS or non-RS rear valance panel was scheduled and welded to the rear crossbar in the rear compartment pan subassembly fixture (which also contained the pierce cylinder for the RS grommet hole), and was finish-welded to the rear quarters in the body framing line.
:beers:
Thanks, John, I did not know that. It is interesting that there are examples of original RS cars with and without the notches in the brackets. Perhaps assembly was "supposed" to be using ones w/notch, but used ones without on occasion based on availability? Maybe some assemblers just didn't pay much regard to the difference, since they are dimensionally identical, save for the notch...