Did you guys read the tidbit in June 2000 of Chevy High Performance for the article covering the L79 66 Chevy II. The owner was able to obtain build record info from his Vin number. The article states the owner of the car called a friend who was a employee at the former Norword assembly plant. He was given a secret phone number of someone in Detroit. He called the contact in Detroit and gave the guy his VIN. He was put on hold for a few minutes, when the guy came back on the phone he verified all the orginal build records. The article went on to say that the person and Detroit was not happy that someone leaked the information that GM was archiving VIN and Build info on everycar they produced.

It would sure be nice if GM would help Camaro owners verify the orginality of their cars. You know how it is when someone has worked hard to obtain his or her older camaro dream car and takes great pride in restoring it or modifying the car to their liking. I sure most camaro owners would not mind paying a fee to GM for the information. With todays Information Processing and Computers, I sure GM could get the info to us if they dont have it already. Do they still plan to kill the F BODY, if so this will make 1st Gen Camaro even more collectable.

Well enough jaw jacking from me, Let me know how you guys feel about this. Thanks

Considering the capabities of computers these days it would be very possible to research these cars without a lot of man hours once the info is entered somewhere. I suspect GM would have to make some money on it somehow or the bean counters would nix the idea real quick. Sure would be nice to get this info. I sent for a "restoration pack" from Chevy a while back and got a rather large amount of generic info. Nice, but nothing really noteworthy.

I'm pretty sure the info in the article is an old wive's tale; I built '66 Chevy II's (at Willow Run, not Norwood), and any computers involved in the business in those days were VERY primitive (build sheets came over old teletype printers), and any mainframe operating system or data storage media used in those days wouldn't even be able to be converted or read these days. I'm sure any of those old build records from 30+ years ago have long-since been pitched. I'm still in the OEM assembly business, and NOBODY stores 30-year-old paper records on ANYTHING any more; we destroy all records over 3 years old (some at one year) lest they become subject to "discovery" by one of the hundreds of thousands of money-grubbing, bottom-feeding 1-800-sue-anybody plaintiff lawyers out there that file 100 lawsuits a week against the OEM's hoping to get their 35% contingency fees from an out-of-court settlement for clients who slammed the door on their finger and claim "design defects".

------------------
JohnZ
'69 Z28 Fathom Green

How were the Ponitiac records kept for all those years? My cousin who buys and sells Chevelles said he talked to a guy who got build sheet info by GM somehow, but I don't believe it. I want my build sheet! http://www.camaros.net/forum/frown.gif

------------------
'69 RS SS 396 375hp L78 Convertible, M22, 3.31 posi, deluxe interior, gauges, rosewood wheel, AM-FM,fold down seat, tilt wheel, SS wheels, console mounted 8 track player, chambered exhaust

I worked at the GM plant in St. Louis 68 - 70. I remember the build sheets printed on a local teletype. I believe the orignal source was a deck of cards pre-keypunched for production schedules and specially keypunched for dealer orders. Maybe there's a warehouse full of cards somewhere in Roswell.

I forgot to inlude there is a tale of a 66 (I think) II with a 427 that tore up the O'Fallon, Mo area back in 66. The engine was dealer installed for the daughter of the dealership owner.

I wouldn't write off that story so quickly. Did y'all notice who wrote it? Alan Colvin.
He says it happened.
I asked him a few weeks ago and he said the article had generated zero correspondence from people. So much for putting pressure on GM on this issue.

------------------
Kurt S.
www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

Maybe I need to speak with my cousin again. Why wouldn't Chevy give that info and charge a fee? But then GM isn't the best-run company.

------------------
'69 RS SS 396 375hp L78 Convertible, M22, 3.31 posi, deluxe interior, gauges, rosewood wheel, AM-FM,fold down seat, tilt wheel, SS wheels, console mounted 8 track player, chambered exhaust

I think Chris hit the nail on the head. What other piece of sh*t car company would kill off extremely popular cars like the Fiero, Buick Grand National, Monte Carlo SS, and Impala SS after investing millions to design them and not replace them with equivalent models? GM is a poorly run company.

All of these records are still available. Chris, your friend wasn't lying about Pontiac. They made all of their information available. All you have to do is provide a VIN and about $50 and they will send you a new window sticker, complete with all of the options and option pricing. I went to the Pontiac Southern Nationals here in Dallas earlier this summer and EVERY rare car had a new window sticker on it.

If you have read any of Alan Colvins books, you will see how much info Chevy has kept on cars it has built. They just don't want to make the information available to us, the enthusiast.

------------------
Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

There is a similar topic being discussed on the National Corvette Restorers Society board right now. One of the posts is from a 37 year GM employee who was ordered by Jim Perkins to find the Corvette and Camaro build records (without success I'm sorry to say). Some good information for those who are interested about this topic. You can read it at: http://216.122.167.32/forum/config.cgi and go to the "Corvette Build Records" topic.

Why Pontiac has these records while Chevrolet doesn't is anyone's guess. I can remember paying $35 to Pontiac Historical Services for a copy of the window sticker for a 1970 Trans Am that I used to own - nothing could have been more simple. It would be nice to have this same service available from Chevrolet (assuming of course that the records can be found). The Chevrolet records may still be out there somewhere, but my guess is that if they are found, it will be from a source other than Chevrolet - most likely from GMAC or perhaps one of the shipping companies.

As far as the magazine story goes... I'd like to think that it could be that easy, but it sounds more like "urban legend" to me. Still, I wouldn't mind being proven wrong on this one!

Regards,

Stan Falenski

[This message has been edited by Rowdy Rat (edited 09-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rowdy Rat (edited 09-14-2000).]

[This message has been edited by Rowdy Rat (edited 09-14-2000).]

Don't know how real the story is, but there is some credibility behind it.
I've heard of other high GM execs searching for the info and not finding it.

I think the data is not available because, if it still exists, GM doesn't know about it.

I've always wondered about the GMAC copies. Never thought about the shipping companies having copies.

------------------
Kurt S.
www.camaros.org (http://www.camaros.org)

Its like Chris said, how is it that PHS has all that info and you cant get squat from Chev? Even the Canadian cars, you can get that! So whats up? I personally think the paperwork is around some where, I want my build sheet http://www.camaros.net/forum/mad.gif

------------------
67 Camaro SS Conv.
70 Challenger R/T Conv.

Pontiac DID keep those old records, and sold them (for a pretty penny) to a private individual who now digs through his treasure trove and supplies the information for a fee. Pontiac was a much smaller organization than Chevrolet, and took the trouble to save all that stuff. You have to remember that in the 60's, Chevrolet alone was building 13,000 cars and trucks every day in 12 different plants with build sheets and price labels generated from IBM punchcards, not from tape or hard disks; between the punchcards and the paper they generated, they'd have needed several Rose Bowls to store it all. They kept Engineering documents and drawings on microfilm, but all that stuff was generated in one building - the stuff we want was locally generated at each assembly plant, and the plants threw it away when the file cabinets filled up and they couldn't jam any more paper in the drawers. I've spent 37 years in assembly plants, and believe me, the last thing they used to worry about was saving paper records - in those days the IBM cards were pitched the day after they were used, and the papers went in the dumpster within (at most) a year after the car was shipped (a typical assembly plant builds over 250,000 cars a year - do a little math and imagine how many pieces of paper that comes to, and how much space it would require. There's no conspiracy at work here - the stuff is just plain gone.

------------------
JohnZ
'69 Z28 Fathom Green

As for the corvette records if someone can not find anything about any corvette ever built and sold to a customer they are not looking in the right places. Bowling Green has a web site that stats you can get the Corvette history of your car with the VIN#.
I have seen the Pontiac link that is mentioned and now it to be real.
I have a friend that works for the GM warranty offices and am hoping to find something out. Even if it is just the dealer then hope to contact them.

For Bowling Green...YES for St Louis... NO.
Corvettes were built in St Louis through the 3rd gens.

95% of all punch cards were generated from a magnetic tape. The IBM 360/370 mainframes of the late 60's were all running COBOL which is a great data retrieval system provided the tapes were archived. Problem is the tapes cost money and are reusable; erasing the previous information. GM was required to keep production records by the IRS for seven long years. The day after that the tapes would have gone back to the computer room to be recycled. In addition to GMAC which probably kept individual car records for the average life of the loan (60 months). There are the dealerships themselves. They received three copies of the invoice (not build sheet) for every car in their plan. One copy went into the individual salesman's file cabinet, and probably lasted the month he kept records for his commission check, or longer if he was a pack rat: as only the limitation of the amount of storage he was assigned would necessitate his trashing records. The sales manager had a record to verify commission sales and to order product mix to replace what was sold. And the general manager kept their own records, which could pile up for years.

When Ferman Chevrolet moved out of their downtown location (1919-1992) and followed people out to the suburbs in the county they trashed the old three story masonry building which at the time of demolition (early nineties) was chock full of old car invoices. I can remember Cat D8's track loaders scooping up cubic yards at a time of cardboard boxes containing, old car brochures, sales records, and car invoices to go to the land fill.
If your dealer is still in business and in the same location you might want to get friendly.


Larger Dave

Is this a good link above? It's not working for me????

As for the corvette records if someone can not find anything about any corvette ever built and sold to a customer they are not looking in the right places. Bowling Green has a web site that stats you can get the Corvette history of your car with the VIN#.
I have seen the Pontiac link that is mentioned and now it to be real.
I have a friend that works for the GM warranty offices and am hoping to find something out. Even if it is just the dealer then hope to contact them.

i am very interested in finding out more history on my 67 vette. i can't find this on any bowling green site.can you tell me? thanx,dave

The original post is almost 6 years old, thats probaly why it's a dead link.

a note from my digging history.a few months ago i tryed to contact the old oldsmobile historical (i believe it used to be called that as of 10 yrs ago or so) after much internet gm phone # searching and skawking. i got the # for the more recently form(consolidated) gm historical center. after LUCKILY getting the one assistant to answer the phone. i was given the head. and after he told my no specific vin OLDS records.i mentioned PONTIAC. and he made some interesting statements. told me that sale of pontiac records to PHS was in debate by Pontiac, and that it was actually going through the court system as we spoke ,with pontiac sueing PHS to get the info. back!!!

i am very interested in finding out more history on my 67 vette. i can't find this on any bowling green site.can you tell me? thanx,dave

There is no archived info on the St Louis built cars... only the Bowling Green cars...
Corvettes were built in St Louis until 84 (I believe).
So if you have an 84 to present Corvette you are in luck... as for the older ones... SOL.

Actually, I think it's 1981 and newer.