I have read evey post on the Guldstrand mod including David Pozzi's site, by the way awsome site. So far there has been very little negative talk about the mod so I'm going to do it, however I have seen there is two ways of doing it.

#1 take the template which I have and drill the 7/16 holes and grind the top down for clearance.

#2 Cut the mount off the frame and lower it aprox 3/4" as well as move it rearward.

So my questions are?

#1 No matter which method I use will I have to trim the control arms regardless.

#2 I have limited knowledge on suspension but it seems by moving the mount rearward that 1/2 to 3/4'" it helps, so is that the real benefit or is it just the factory appearance.

#3 if it is better to cut the mount and lower it does anyone have the specific measurements or do I just attach the template make measurements of the new locations and then cut the mount and trim it to the new measurement are aligned.

Thanks in advance!

Mountie,
Personally, I think it just boils down to appearance. Both methods do the same thing.

Depending on how you view your car, what condition it's in, what 'version' Camaro it is, the possibility of selling it in the future.... do you care if the towers are trimmed? You'll definitely be able to see the trimmed areas unless you fab something to cover them up a little. Will that scare a potential buyer away in the future? Once they're drilled and trimmed, there's no going back because the factory holes will be cut off.

Remove, trim and re-weld? They'll look factory because all yer doing is trimming off of the bottom and moving the entire assembly. There's no need to trim the upper corners off to clear the a-arms like when you just drill new holes. I think that method looks better. I just drilled and trimmed. But like the 'drill/trim' method, there's no going back.

Personal preference. I didn't really care on my car. And I'll bet there won't be a soul who looks at them that'll say... "Hey! You chopped the towers up!". I would have prefered to move the whole thing back but I wasn't adept at welding at the time and it sure would look 'factory'. But then, I don't have a cherry Z or SS so it didn't really matter.

Thanks for the detailed response I like the fact that if I cut the mount and relocate it that I don't have too trim the control arm.

I you or anyone else could confirm some of the measurements for me that would be great!

Thanks for the quick response!

Going back to your original post, no matter which method you go with, you don't do any trimming on the arms themselves.
The template I used came from Davids site. I put it on a copier and kept messing with the reporduction size until it was as close to true dimensions as possible. Then I just cut it out, stuck it inside the tower and marked and drilled. I must have done the measurements at least a dozen times from both sides before I got up enough nads to put drill to steel! ;)

I have read where the upper arm's bumper may need to be tweaked but I haven't done that yet as mine is still apart for a few more weeks.

If you use the template and trim off the top of the bracket and notch the bracket braces, that is the easiest method for a novice with no welding fab experience.
If you are good at welding, you can relocate the mount but must build a jig to accurately relocate the bracket or be very very good at "eyeballing" it.
The advantage of relocating is you can move the bracket rearward more, so acheving a high amount of caster with stock A frames is possible.
Large amounts of Caster is not of great benefit except for autocross.
The lowering of the holes is the main thing, it increases camber when cornering.
David

Thanks for the replys I have decided that I'm going to cut off the bracket and re-weld it for four reasons.

#1 I like the fact that I will not have to trim the control arms as I feel it would weeken them.

#2 I has a nicer finish.

#3 It allows me to move the bracket rear ward and accorind to David's expertise it provides more caster.

#4 I just finished justifying to my wife why I purchased a new Lincoln 230v mig welder and the fact that I had to have the gas setup as well.

Thanks for your advice.

I ask one last question to David. The post you provided indicated that if I move it rearward I gain alot of caster which is good for auto cross and I went through your site again and it talks about moving the bracket about a 1/2" rearward any more call Guldstrand.

So the question is the 1/2" a good distance to move the bracket rearward but still have it as a streetable application or would moving it only 1/4" be better?

Tanks for all your guys advice this is an excellent site!

Ignore the spelling mistakes as it is to early in the morning and no coffee yet!

When I did the mod to my 70 Nova, I just redrilled the holes and cut the corners off the mount. It worked great, but does not look so good. I still need to go back and make it look better!

David,
While we're on the subject, I've been thinking in the past about the possibility of doing this on my 71 Chevelle, an A-body. Do you think the results would be similiar? It appears that the Chevelle and Camaros/Novas use the same upper and lower control arms... or do you know if they are different?

Thanks for any info.

Bill C.

Mountie,
I moved mine a half inch to the rear, and I got 3.5 deg positive caster with no shims. You could easily go 3/4" with no drawbacks.
If you plan on using aftermarket upper A frames, they may have additonal caster built into them and not be compatable with this mod.

BC,
According to Hollander, they don't interchange. I would not change the geometry without knowing at least the amount of camber change you have now. If you have very little, you could probably lower the upper mounts a little to help out.
David

David sorry to keep bugging you but everytime you provide an answer I end up having another question.

In the future I plan on purchasing Global West Upper control arms which from what I understand has extra caster built in.

So from what I understand about everything I can still do the Guldstrand mod by cutting it off the frame and lowering it 3/4" however I should not move it the 1/2" rearward if I plan on buying new control arms eventually

Is that correct or am I missing something?

That's correct. The GW arms are "supposed" to allow more positive caster with no mods. Although someone posted here or on Pro-Touring.com that he could not get over 3.5 degrees with GW uppers for some reason.

The high caster will lean the wheel in when turning, so Global West feels there is not really a need for the Guldstrand mod on street Camaros when using their upper A frame.
GW recomend the Guldstrand mod be done when you are autocrossing or doing open track events.
If you do the Guldstrand mod, a lesser negative camber setting will be required.

My feeling is, the Guldstrand mod is fine on the street and high amounts of caster will mainly only help if you are autocrossing or turning very tight corners. I don't feel it helps much at all on a road course or large radius turns.
If you have manual steering, the caster should be reduced to ease steering effort.
David

I welded new A frame mounting tower due to one of them was cut in the middle for some reason. I moved back 1/4" and lowered the holes by David's suggestion.
Becarufull when you cut them and mark the location realy good. Because those towewrs are not flat vertically so when you cut them you can not slide back and weld because it will be moved inwards. take your marks from top of the towers on the frame. You should see the measuring method I develop to make both side same due to one of the side was meesed up.
Good luck.

Thanks a lot. I have been studying the frame alot and have taken numerous measurements. I spoke to a buddy of mine and talked to him about The upper Tubular control arms and he said he could easily fab them for me. So off I went and dropped of my originals with photo's of others along with the urethane bushings, new shafts and a new ball joint and told him what I wanted. So I should be able to see a finished product by the weekend.

I'm not trying to re-invent the wheel but the control arms from DSE and GW are expensive and thats not even taking in to account the exchange rate for the Canadian dollar. He said he could make them for about $300.00 a set Canadian minus of course the bushings and ball joint which is more realistic for me.

So before I cut off and lower the mount I'm going to see what the custom upper can do for me!

Any opinions would be great especially if you have ideas on measurements to re-adjust it for more caster!