I am trying to avoid cutting the old locating holes ,so as to be able to return to stock if need be,as article in hot rod states can be done .

But howmany shims would you say I should be packing in while I am mocking up the assembly of the top A-arm to the mounting post ,in order to see where and how much to grind. unfortunatly all my shims are in a single pile , and my notes as to where which ones were before I started are gone.

Please try give me an idea of the maximum thickness of shimming I might need to alighn things in the future.

Thanks for any help.

It depends on how low your car sits. My car sits really low so I only have 1 shim in the front and a large one with a small one in the rear of the control arm shaft. I have noticed that my front springs have settled some since I got the car alighned so I hope I don't run into problems when I get it re-alighned.

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68 468 700R4, and here it is;
mutert23 (http://home.earthlink.net/~mutert23/)

Thanks for input MarkM.

By the way you`re car Was my screen saver last month for two weeks ,before my wife stuck some baby picture on ,we swop every two weeks,for the sake of fareness and all that s..., what we must sacrifice for love,
hay?!!

Any way Jokes a side the picture helped motivate me to set some dead lines , so thanks for that and all you`re input .

Any Ideas Where to find good Bolt in subframe connectors for as cheep as possible?,

I just dont think I can do everything my self with the few hours I get so I am looking into the possibility of importing some of the stuff I planned on making my self but At +/- 10 times the price you would pay there though ,I must buy wisely.

Sorry.. one more thing , Does any one other than Global West stock Del-a-lum solid
A-arm bushes?,or are they the cheapest any way.

Thanks again .


[This message has been edited by CESARE 327 RSA (edited 09-13-2000).]

Actually, the stock rubber bushings are not that bad if you have the other stuff done right. Can you get them where you are?

Speedway sells circle track bushings that are fairly cheap. I'm not shure if they are on the net. I think theirs are metal to metal. No liner.

David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Homepage (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

David: There is a place here "U.S connection " that could get me the stuff but they would import it from say Global West any way . So if it can be mailed it`s better I buy direct.

I could make a plan and use the local " GM Australian (Holden)" bushes like I did last time , but they only lasted me some 1 1/2 years, most of which was in the garage being repaired or upgraded.
Any way I made do last time by placeing a thick Washer as a spacer ,between the bush and the shoulder of the pivot shaft ,as the bush was too short it seemed.

The thing is While Im at it I might as well go all out ,and Avoid redoing the job in say 2 years.

Why am I so bent on solid ?

Well ,My 327 69`s sole reson to be on the streets is M3 BMW , and Cobra kit car
Hunting every say , 2nd saterday on the streets, and to show about 80% of the no gas ,no stroke ,no slick ,no super charger
350 `s at the drags , That a 327 CAN be sweet enough to beat them.

Now in order to not Have the M3 ,and Cobras leave me through the 1st corner ,and at least hold them off untill say the 3rd corner
, I dont think I can afford to compromise ,and will need all the advantage I can get.

You see its taken 5 years to get from 215 HP at the fly wheel , at the coast to 214 HP at the wheels at my altitude, but the M5 is already here and its fast. So if I want to make use of my sweet 327 I had better not take too long in getting the thing to go arround a corner in a firm ,predictable ,tight manner.

I looked for Speedway on Yahoo but got too many matches , thanks though .

Must go ,getting late here!!!

Thanks again

Cesare.

If you have a welder or some place to do it. I'd cut off the upper A frame mount and shorten it and weld it back on.
It looks really stock, and you won't ever want to go back to the stock holes anyway, believe me!

If you just re drill the holes using the template, make shure you trim the ends of the rear shim that goes against the mount. There is a bend there that will prevent a stock length shim from sitting flat. If you don't notice it, the shims will come loose and fall out later.

Here is a good photo of what the circle track guys use here in the US. Notice the larger diamiter center pin for better wear. http://www.afcoracing.com/products/getproduct.cfm?CategoryID=8&ClassID= 113&SubclassID=532&ProductID=786 (http://www.afcoracing.com/products/getproduct.cfm?CategoryID=8&ClassID=113&SubclassID=532&ProductID=786)

I'm not shure if this exact size is the one you need but if you are interested, I can measure mine and see which one is correct.

I think you could have someone make these for you from this photo. The center bushing is just a little longer than the outer piece so when you tighten the bolts it won't pinch the A frame. I'd guess it's .010" to ,020" longer.
I'd use mild steel for the outer piece, and a hard inner piece like crome molly. There is a steel called ETD-150, (Elevated Temperature Drawn) it is like softened 4340 crome molly but a lot more machineable. You could make the inners out of that and heat it with a torch and let it AIR cool. It will harden with that treatment and wear real well.
Or if you could find a piece of wrist pin matieral or tractor track pin it might work but it's allready hardened and would be tough to machine to the correct length.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Homepage (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer



[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-15-2000).]

David : Thank you , thank you ,thank you.

The pictures are very usefull ,and my newly Qualified Fitter and turner Friend , Who happens to be visiting (I have the front end of his car sitting on the back of my pick up,to get sand blasted),insists I should not give up and has offered to help machine them on my lathe.

So thanks again for your help (and patience)

Cesare.

On the upper A frame mod. You will not be able to retain much of the upper holes. Maybe the holes, but no metal above them.

There is a photo showing my subframe on my first gen page, it shows where I trimmed the bottom off and re welded the mount. It looks stock but you must be very careful to re weld in exactly the same place.
I moved my mounts just a little to the rear to increase caster without having to use a big stack of washers on the rear bolt.
I don't have it together yet to tell you if I screwed it up or not!

Have you put on a larger front sway bar? What size? The ETD 150 can be used to make a sway bar too.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Homepage (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

Instead of wacking off the top of upper control arm mount,and lowering the inner mount.Why not create a taller spindle by installing a longer upper ball joint?(80's chevy 1/2ton truck)would need to ream spindle, and will raise upper control arm approx 1/2 inch. Dale (usedto race IMCA dirt modified)

Dale,
That sounds good, but you would have to enlarge the upper ball joint mount in the A frame too as the truck ball joint is larger body, and buy or find a reamer for the spindle.
It seems like someone used to make taller ball joints that didn't need a lot of mods, but I can't find any now.
I suppose if you didn't go larger on the ball joint, it might break anyway.

I did some looking a while ago for a taller lower joint to lower a friends camaro and improve the geometry at the same time.

Any I found needed a larger seat welded into the lower A frame and the spindle enlarged.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Homepage (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-17-2000).]

Dave : I relized that not much material would be aloud to remain above the holes ,if I did as the hot rod article had said, which is why I got hold of spare set of A arms from a wrecked 67,and am doing the following .

I have cut away the rounded section of the a arm which interfers with the top of the mounting post ,so that the top veiw is one of a almost rectangular opening extending left and right from the upturned lip ,just ahead of the shock upper mounting access hole in the A arm,to the radius edge of the side walls of the A arm , above Where the bushes push in .

Dont get a hart atack just yet,I know it sounds bad read on ,

So with the access cut out to the shim area esentialy made longer ,the arms strength is compromized, wich is why I am having 4mm plates ,with the same profile of the original a arm ,but with 75 mm extensions on to the left and right and 20mm towards the ouside of the car lazer cut.

The 75mm extensions will be bent down at 90 degrees , to slide over the side walls and mounting holes of the bushes.
These 75 mm extensions already have the 38 mm radius at the ends to not interfere with the bush mounting holes.
The 20 mm extension towards the outside of the car will be bent 80 to 90 degrees down to meet the remaining lip just above the shock mount hole of the a arm.

With the above box in place I should have an A arm with a raized spacer veiwing section,Which should clear the top of the mounting plate with only minimal grinding of the material above the original holes needed to clear.

The one problem that may arize is clearing the front cylinders exhaust tube, depending on what angle the Upper A arm will be sitting at when the lower A arm is sitting paralell with the ground,and how many shims I will be running.

The plates will be ready for me this week end if all goes well,and I Should see If it will work by early next week.

If not I WILL CUT the bleeding top holes away and be done with it.

By the way I ran into a 89 Corvette rear suspension ,(with some damage,but repairable ),for 800 Rands ( $ 100)at the local swop meet.

I baught it for my pick up (long term project),but have had thaughts of fabricating a frame around it to bolt to the back of the camaro , say in a years time or so When the camaro seen some use again.

What are youre thaughts, yes/No , where to look / Why not to bother.

dale68z:
Thanks for the sugestion ,but I am already triying too be too "original",and am starting to wonder WHY??
Thanks for youre intrest though.

Thanks agian
Cesare ,
(getting a lot closer to cutting the bleeding
things off.)


[This message has been edited by CESARE 327 RSA (edited 09-20-2000).]

CESARE 327,

You are talking about the same modifications to the upper A-arms just so you won't have to make your car nonreturnable back to stock at a later date that convinced me to buy and install Pro-Motorsports "spindle extenders" on my '67.
The extenders raise the upper balljoint about 1.9375". This does about the same thing or a little better than dropping the upper A-arm mount holes, plus, they do it without modifying the car beyond return to stock.
The "extenders cost about $200.00/US + freight.
I wanted to "drill" first, then realised that the A-arms had to be modified.
Next David said to cut, modify and reweld the frame mounts which is the "proper" way to do this sort of thing but I don't have welding equipment or skills or the means to remove the frame mounts, so I bought the "extenders" and just bolted them on.
I am now learning how to weld with guidance from someone that knows how to because I am modifying some brake caliper mounting brackets, which is a whole another "story".
Good luck with your project. pdq67

If you drive on fairly smooth roads the independent rear won't help.

If there is any room, you can drill the A frame holes a little to the rear and you will need to use less shims on the rear of the A frame. It won't come as close to the headers.

OR you could instead modify the upper A frame to shorten it near the rear frame bushing mount. But you need to be careful to keep the mount holes aligned and not trim off too much. You would have to cut a piece out of the A frame but not very thick. Maybe only .200" and weld it back together. If you did this under where you will weld the reinforcement plate, it should be strong enough.

You will also have a clearance problem where the braces for the upper mount are on each side, front and rear. You will have to notch out the braces to clear. You can allways weld them back in if you change back.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Homepage (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

I think the longer upper ball joint is for a '70's Nova or Chevelle. I asked about them at O'Reilley's Parts and the counter person looked and brought out one that looked identical to mine but was about 3/8" to 1/2" longer. We compared them side to side.
I figure they are the ones people are selling for about 2 to 3 times what they are worth to guys that don't know they are actually stock for another model car. pdq67