Anyone want to comment on this? I don't feel like putting up with the noise if its not going to give me a noticeable increase over stock handling.

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70 Nova
355 TFS Heads
700R4
99 Formula 6spd

That's a really good question!
If you look at the rubber bushings and compare them to the polly bushings they have about the same amount of material in them, so the only improvement is in the added stiffness of the pollyurethane.

The stock rubber bushings I had in my 67 for autocross (I used 10" wide race slicks) were "improved" by me as I pounded a bunch of finishing nails into the rubber all around the bushings from both sides.
This made the bushings firmer, but they still worked like stock bushings with no squeaking.

What the polly bushings are trying to reduce is the deflection of the lower controll arm bushings and resulting loss of camber by the loaded tire/wheel.

Hopefully with the improved bushings you don't need a large amount of negative camber to start with, and the front suspension will hang in there in a hard turn.

Now realize that you are going beyond what any of the new cars are using. They still are using the rubber bushings stock.
The reason for using them on a first gen Camaro is because it was designed for narrow tires, and has a very poor camber curve.
If the camber curve were better, there would be much less need for need for a hard bushing.

Here are a fiew of the things which affect the camber loss on a Camaro during hard cornering.
Antiroll bar stiffness and spring stiffness
A arm bushing hardness
Camber curve
wheel stiffness (steel vs aluminum)
A arm stiffness
Subframe stiffness
Traction coefficient of the tires
Traction coefficient of the road
Weight of the vehicle (front end in this case)
Driver agressiveness

As you can see, the more of the negative factors you have, the more important bushing stiffness becomes because you are placing more and more load on them.
If you have a big block Camaro, with sticky tires, and you are using steel wheels and have not done the Guldstrand mod. You are stacking up a lot of negatives. You need some positives to balance the score.

If you have a small block and tires that are not very wide or have a lot of grip. There is much less loading on the bushings to deflect them, and they are less of a handicap to a Camaro of this type.
If you are racing or autocrossing, then even polly might be too soft. You would want solid bushings.
David

[ 09-27-2004, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: davidpozzi ]

David, wow. That was a very complete and educational response. Thanks.
Here is proposed setup.
70 Nova
AL head, intake 355 chevy
widest 16" tire I can fit.
No air conditiong and as much weight as I cant take out of the car without resorting to fiberglass.
The car is going to be autocrossed (God knows what class when I am done with it)
The cam is ground to bring peak torque in as low as possible. Had it ground by M&S machine as reccomended by David Vizards new book on budget building SB Chevys. Very interesting cam grind.


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70 Nova
355 TFS Heads
700R4
99 Formula 6spd

Ratfink,

Shades of the '60's with a handle like that.
Big Daddy Roth (I think) was one of the greats.
You got me curious about the timing spec's on your autocross cam. If its not personal, what are they??? I ask this because I wanted a torque cam for my 496 and settled for a Comp Cams 282S solid.

It comes on at 4500 for t and 5500 for hp per Dyno2000. I wanted about 4000 for torque but thought that I was losing too much hp at 5500rpm when I ran timing figures that generated peak torque at 4000rpm. Now this is only for my engines combo, so may not hold for someone else. pdq67

Funny how many people dont get the Rat Fink reference http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
As far as the cam card goes I will send you a .jpg of it. Just cuz I am too lazy to type it all in. Keep in mind I told the grinder I wanted as much torques as possible while maximizing my heads potential (new TFS 23degree 195cc). I also told them I would use this car for autocross with a 700r4 trans with a stock convertor and a 3.73 rear. To be honest I am a bit skeptical about how its going to work but hell, camshaft science is just that a science and if you believe what Vizard says in his book their is a lot of power to be had by getting a custom grind over an off the shelf item. Feel free to post the .jpg of the car if you want.

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70 Nova
355 TFS Heads
700R4
99 Formula 6spd

typo
feel free to post the card not car

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70 Nova
355 TFS Heads
700R4
99 Formula 6spd

Ratfink,

The spec's are interesting to say the least.

Please tell us how you like the cam after you get everything going in competition. This type a cam spec's falls in line with what I've read on circle track cams.

The only problem that I'm having is trying to figure out how the top end torque still exists. I know it's a fine balance to create low end grunt but still have a top end charge and someone like Vizard should know. pdq67

I'd go with either the del a lum or the pollygraphite bushings since you are autocrossing it.

I'd get a rule book and study it as you allready have made mods that will put you in fast company.

I believe that street prepaired class does not allow the del a lum type bushings as they are condsidered solid type.

Polly are allowed in street prepaired and up.

Your engine mods may put you into Modified class where you will race a totally stripped race car with solid suspension, fuel cell, roll cage etc.

one step below modified is prepared class which would be a good class to shoot for.
It still allows a lot of mods.
Any class ABOVE street prepared uses racing slicks.
Stock and street prepaired use DOT legal tires. Even the DOT tires for autocross will generate 1 G or better cornering force.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Homepage (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-24-2000).]

In hind site I should have put more money into suspension and less into engine. Oh well now I have a pretty stout engine and probably not enough suspension. Thats ok though, as long as I am having fun http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

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70 Nova
355 TFS Heads
700R4
99 Formula 6spd

does anybody have the guldstrand mod on the web so i dont have to spend however much it is for their catalog?
dan

RatFink,
If your interested, I replaced the entire front end of my '70 nova with the super poltgraphite kit from PST and it made a big difference. I also put on a 1" sway bar from them and changed the springs to a little stiffer than stock. The car "rides on rails" now, but you can definitely feel the difference when it comes to bumps. I don't mind it, but some people may. The poly graphite are not supposed to squeak and after 8 months, mine still don't make a sound. I recently put multi-leafs in the back (replaced the monos) and that helped stiffen everything up even more. I also put in a 700, but I don't autocross mine...I think you might be happier with a TH350 as the rpm drop between 1st and 2nd on the 700 is pretty significant and could cause you some grief downshifting and losing traction. Also, the 700s tend to run hot, and with that kind of abuse you can bet it probably not last too long. I added an auxillary cooler to mine and it still gets warm after driving a bunch in 2nd or 3rd gear. I would be interested in hearing what size 16" tire you wind up with, I have 235/60/15's on mine with 15x7 and 3 1/2" BS rims. They rub the inside on the fender on LARGE bumps, and barely touch (one side only) the frame at full lock. I think this is the largest I can go without modifting something, but will consider other options. You can email me directly if you want more details. Hope this helps.

Bill C.


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[This message has been edited by BC (edited 09-26-2000).]

While everyone is on this subject, I was wondering if anyone had any experience with Performance Suspension Components, versus the PST most seem to go with. Their stuff is priced lower, but still carries a lifetime warranty and free shipping. I'm imagining that it's likely both use the same materials to make their bushings (poly-graphite), but the machining may vary. So anyone used these? And how well did they fit? Any problems?

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Matt
http://camarotech1.com
Camaro Tech 1st Generation

no7a,
Look here for info, The Guldstrand template is at the bottom.

David Pozzi's web page: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/vintage_transam.htm

David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Homepage (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer