I searched and searched but could not find the discussions about the 69's weird offset. I know you remember djd cause I remember you saying yours had the same thing. The problem being the passenger side tire being closer to the fender than the drivers side.
What I want to know is:
1)Did we conclude all 69's were this way?
2)If not, of the cars that ARE this way, were they tore down and rebuilt, then ended up that way?
I know several guy's had this "thing" going on and only on the 69's.
And finally, if it's NOT normal, what could be done to correct it?
I'm asking because I just can't get it out of my mind after looking at Joe G's car. I remember some discussion, but not a conclusion. Some of you guy's have untouched originals, and others, total resto's.
O.K. here it comes, http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif could everyone with a 69 check this out and then we'll know for sure? After seeing Joe's car, I would hate for him to have to pull it apart for no reason, it's just too damn pretty. http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

I'll be eagerly awaiting your replies. http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

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Steve
67 SS 396,4-sp
67 RS 327,4-sp
72 RS 350/350
69 4X4 suburban 350,4-sp
73 3/4 ton 454/400
Stevo Camaro's Toy (http://www.geocities.com/stevocamaro)
Our Muscle Cars (http://community.webshots.com/user/steve_lynell)

There's a long post about this subject.

My '67 SS/RS is offset and it hasn't been tweeked. Seems as though I remember when I got in an argument with a factory rep way back when after my pass. side front spring sagged and made my dash slant noticably to the shoulder of the road that he said at that time GM considered +/- 1/2" OK. And, I said BS and ended up with 396 A/C springs at cost with free labor to replace. Now that was service. pdq67

Steve,
I think it was in the general tech section, not here.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

Stevo,

I still haven't resolved the issue on mine. Money has been tight and I want to take it to a good alignment or frame shop. I got the .610 pins from Matt and proved out my subframe is off but only on 1 side. Because the subframe is all 1 unit it would never line up the way it is and I cannot see any signs of damage!!!

I think this is very common but I have seen '69 cars without this trate...

Matt if you see this and remember who you refered to me about the pins e-mail me please. I lost all my mail a while back due to a virus.

------------------
...Dennis
The Cars:
'69 RS Convertible w/SS trim (http://www.camaroslimited.com/memberscars/den.htm)
'96 Z28SS #1679 of 2410 (http://www.camaroslimited.com/graphics/memcars/96ss.jpg)
The Club:
Camaros Limited Nor-Cal (http://camaroslimited.com)

[This message has been edited by DjD (edited 02-04-2001).]

stevo camaro

Do a search on .610, (I think in B&S section) and it will (should) all come up. pdq67

Dennis:

I cleared out my E mails and don't have a record of who needs the pins. This problem has me stumped because neither of my '69's have this problem, nor does a friends '68. When we put on the frames. I installed the pins and tightened the bolts. That simple.

TTFN
Mat

Thanks for checkin Mat... I think the guys name was Pete... If your out there and still want to use the pins Mat turned send me an e-mail Pete!!

------------------
...Dennis
The Cars:
'69 RS Convertible w/SS trim (http://www.camaroslimited.com/memberscars/den.htm)
'96 Z28SS #1679 of 2410 (http://www.camaroslimited.com/graphics/memcars/96ss.jpg)
The Club:
Camaros Limited Nor-Cal (http://camaroslimited.com)

Sooo, it's NOT suppose to be that way. O.K.
If the car were jacked up then, radiator support bolts lossened up, lossen the body mount bolts, could it be shifted over without pulling the front clip? Putting the jackstands under the body of course. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
I think probably would have to lossen fender bolts, then realign body panels maybe? Do you guy's think it could be done this way?

------------------
Steve
67 SS 396,4-sp
67 RS 327,4-sp
72 RS 350/350
69 4X4 suburban 350,4-sp
73 3/4 ton 454/400
Stevo Camaro's Toy (http://www.geocities.com/stevocamaro)
Our Muscle Cars (http://community.webshots.com/user/steve_lynell)

Stevo,
If the alignment pins show everything is say within the pins going into their proper holes, I would leave well enough alone.

I stuck my "micrometer" finger in my holes and they line up within being able to tell there are two holes so the sucker was built that way.

But, if you want ta do it right have at it but then your holes won't line up??? The front rad. holes are the smallest in diameter so you might be able to move them 1/4" or so. The other two holes down one side are alot bigger but doubt if you can gain 3/4" side to side without cocking them off the smaller front rad. bolt holes.

But good luck and tell us how it turns out if you do decide ta try moving everything. pdq67

PDQ, yea, I see what ya mean. Actually I'm talking about Joe's car. I hate to see him have to pull the clip off. I'm thinking there has to be a way to straighten this out without tearing the car down so far. But I don't think it's more than a 1/2" to get. Might be able to do it.
Joe, are you here?? http://www.camaros.net/forum/biggrin.gif

------------------
Steve
67 SS 396,4-sp
67 RS 327,4-sp
72 RS 350/350
69 4X4 suburban 350,4-sp
73 3/4 ton 454/400
Stevo Camaro's Toy (http://www.geocities.com/stevocamaro)
Our Muscle Cars (http://community.webshots.com/user/steve_lynell)

Some where in the Factory Assembly Manual I read that the alignment holes are a guide. Steve there was some fairly detailed suggestions it that orig thread. You may find more to help you there. If you can't find it let me know...

I think it's more than I would chew off by myself but if you and Mr Pozzi were to show up at my door some day I'm sure the 2 of you could instill the confidence I need to jump right in!!

------------------
...Dennis
The Cars:
'69 RS Convertible w/SS trim (http://www.camaroslimited.com/memberscars/den.htm)
'96 Z28SS #1679 of 2410 (http://www.camaroslimited.com/graphics/memcars/96ss.jpg)
The Club:
Camaros Limited Nor-Cal (http://camaroslimited.com)

Hey Steve! I'm here. Looks like a can of worms, doesn't it.
I was on the same thought wave as you (scary) in that I was looking at a way to just loosen the frame bolts and slide it over 1/2" That would center it perfect. At least it sounds easy.
But then, nothing ever is! http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
If I get to that point, I'll keep you in the loop. Thanks
PS I have the Email regarding the alignment tool.
Joe

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69 SS396 Clone, B&M TH400, 12 Bolt Posi, Blue w/White Z28 Stripes
Badboatdude@CS.com

FYI you can relocate the frame without removing the front clip. I just helped a friend who removed and replaced the frame and radiator core support without removing the front fenders on his '68

TTFN
Mat

is this the thread you guys where looking for?http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum1/HTML/003381.html

Can I make it clickable for you? http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum1/HTML/003381.html http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by DjD (edited 02-05-2001).]

Sad - you got me to looking and I found these three... The last in a 68 issue but JohnZ has some excellent verbage as usual...

http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum7/HTML/000316.html

http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum7/HTML/000597.html

http://www.camaros.net/forum/Forum7/HTML/000853.html

------------------
...Dennis
The Cars:
'69 RS Convertible w/SS trim (http://www.camaroslimited.com/memberscars/den.htm)
'96 Z28SS #1679 of 2410 (http://www.camaroslimited.com/graphics/memcars/96ss.jpg)
The Club:
Camaros Limited Nor-Cal (http://camaroslimited.com)

It's comforting to know that it's a pretty common problem on 69's. Did anyone actually correct the problem? Did sliding the sub-frame over work?
Just making plans; don't want to start something that will cause more problems than it fixes!
Thanks for the input, guys. This is a great site. http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif
Joe

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69 SS396 Clone, B&M TH400, 12 Bolt Posi, Blue w/White Z28 Stripes
Badboatdude@CS.com

My rear is the same way, and after changing out the springs and installing the subframe connectors, I can't see enough slop anywhere to do much of anything to the back. pdq67

I noted something interesting on my 69 Van Nuys car last weekend while I was re-installing the subframe - the passenger side alignment hole on the body mounting pad was not a hole, but a slot about double the width of the mounting bolt. As far as I could tell, the body mount had not been modified.

After rereading the posts noted above, I went into this figuring it was going to be a relatively easy task, but the slot thing made it much more difficult. I would up using a tape measure to insure the frame was square with the body.

I guess at the factory they used the drivers side hole to get the side to side alignment and a rough fore/aft alignment and then squared the subframe with the body using the passenger side slot. I assume the slot was meant to handle production tolerances in the body and subframe.

------------------
Pearl blue & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 12/17/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

Thanks for fixing the link DJD, I did'nt realize I have my HTML off.
I was reading this thread and tried to help out on the the search.

Has anyone had any success centering the subframe by just loosening it and sliding it over 1/2"?
Still making plans.....
Thanks
Joe

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69 SS396 Clone, B&M TH400, 3.55 12 Bolt Posi, Blue w/White Z28 Stripes, Chrome Rally Wheels
Badboatdude@CS.com

I might need to move this up on the priority list.
The more I drive hard on winding roads ( the best kind http://www.camaros.net/forum/smile.gif ) , the more I get concerned with the right front tire rubbing.
If I put chrome wheel well moldings on, this will only get worse! http://www.camaros.net/forum/frown.gif
Thanks
Joe

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69 SS396 Clone, B&M TH400, 3.55 12 Bolt Posi, Blue w/White Z28 Stripes, Chrome Rally Wheels
Badboatdude@CS.com

[This message has been edited by Joe G (edited 02-18-2001).]

Just thought I'd bring this subject back up.

I finally moved the subframe over about 3/8-1/2 inch. Turned out to be pretty simple and easy. Just removed the radiator support bolts, loosened the other 4 and with the body lifted about 1/2 inch from the frame, I used a pin bar in the alignment hole and moved the body to where I need it. Lowered the body back down and retightened everything.
Now the clearance is even on each side and no more tire rub.
No issues with bolt hole clearances anywhere. The front body clip moved with the body with no issues.

Joe

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69 Rat-Infested Resti-Clone
WCA Member
Badboatdude@CS.com
69 Pics http://hobbystage.net/camaro/joeg/

[This message has been edited by Joe G (edited 08-20-2002).]

Did just about the same as Joe with CJ's help. Made a big difference... New body mounts also helped as it put the body back to the right height.

------------------
...Dennis
"The '69 (http://chevelles.com/showroom/ww.jpg), the '96 (http://www.camaroslimited.com/graphics/memcars/96ss.jpg) & the club (http://camaroslimited.com/)"

Hi Joe, did you get the rear of the car fixed allready?

Heck, since all my S/F bushings and bolts are still brand new, I need to do the same thing to my car once I get back to working on it.

But it's funny b/c my finger felt fine in the S/F alignment holes when I checked??

Thx. for the advice. pdq67

The sub should move pretty easily once the bolts are loosened and car supported well. Check your steering coupler for binding. You might loosen the steering box bolts and re center it too.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327 original owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer

Hey Steve. The car hasn't gone in the shop yet. It was supposed to go in last Monday but my body guy wasn't finished with a 70 Chevelle he was working on (nice car). It should go in this Monday;. Wish me luck!

David, I only moved it about 1/2" or so. I didn't get any binding in the steering joint.

joe

------------------
69 Rat-Infested Resti-Clone
WCA Member
Badboatdude@CS.com
69 Pics http://hobbystage.net/camaro/joeg/