I am in the process of planning my Winter upgrades to my car and had a question regarding subframe connectors. I have spoken with several people and have read past posts on subframe connectors. I plan on buying the Competition Engineering bolt-on connectors, but will have them welded in. Several people I know have done this and used poly subframe bushings. I thought that welded subframe connectors required solid body bushings. Which is correct or are either ok?


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Hugger Orange & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

I'd go solid mounts or else forget about doing it.
It doesn't make sense to make the subframe connector solid and not the rest of the subframe. You are asking for cracking of the subframe connector in time.

I guess if you use the polly bushings, you could use a bolt in connector.
And if you go solid bushings, go with a welded connector.

I think the whole subframe connector thing is a bit out of hand.
My 67 was autocrossed and street driven for 155,000. miles. It has not had any problems I could pin on lack of subframe connectors.

That said, I plan on welding some in as I think it will help prevent problems in the future with the 500+ horsepower I plan on putting in the car.
I had around 400 to 450 hp small block and autocrossed with 10" slicks all around. I only ran around 4 drag events.

If you are drag racing with good horsepower and slicks, I think you need the connectors then.
If you have 400 hp or less, I don't think you really need the connectors. It would be more of a piece of mind thing.

Carl C has posted his weld in photos on his page. I can't find the url right now.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

A few final thoughts in addition to David's. I also went with welded connectors and solid mounts. The latter after speaking with Art Rasmussen and Doug Nordin ( of Global West ). The other reason I went with welded is that I have a convertible. It really helps and the ride is not harsh.

David,
I have a short crack at the "V" in the drivers rear side glass sail area. I assume because of tooo much lead foot in my youth.

Hope the bolt in connectors and poly S.F. bushings will help. pdq67

Thanks for the input, David. That is pretty much what I have heard from others too.

My car came from the factory with a 307/3-speed manual. It has body cracks in the both upper corners of the windshield and on the passenger side sail panel in the quarter window "v". The guy painting my car recommended subframe connectors as a means to keep the cracks from coming back.

I also have a 500 horsepower engine, but am not intending to do a lot of drag racing. Like many other people, I am building a "pro touring" car.

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Pearl blue & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

I forgot to mention before.
I had cracking of the seams below the rear window running toward the corners of the trunk when the car was new. This was way before I did any modifications to the car.
I remember having them fixed under warranty. So I don't know how much the connectors would help, but it certainly wouldn't hurt.
But look at the unitbody of the Camaro, there is a heavy formed section running below the door sill which connects from near the rear spring to the front of the car.
This connects the unitbody fairly well, just not tied in to the subframe in a direct line the way you'd like to see.
David

I've also experienced cracks in the sealer just outboard of the tail lights, where the fender joins the taillight panel.

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

What suppliers has anyone used for their purchases of solid bushings?

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Pearl blue & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

CarlC and I both purchased Global West's solids are we happy with them.

Joseph

I have the Global west Del-A-Lum (I think they call it). Don't have them in yet, hope they work.
I also got their interlocking body mounts, solid type, stock height.

I believe the headers and bellhousing are the lowest part of the car anyway. I'm hoping to push the headers up a little to get them to clear the ground a little better. Thinner body mounts would just make clearing my Richmond 5 speed harder and make removal of the crossmember harder.
I did make the front mount thinner to fit what was there allready. I couldn't see jacking up the front sheetmetal.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 11-23-2000).]

I know for a fact it doesn't take more than 400 hp to justify subframe connectors. More like about 300. I myself and other friends with f-bodies, have found out what results in any kind of twist in an f-body. Cracking paint, rear window cracking, just plain screwing up your hard work is the bottom line. If you hook up hard with any kind of power, you can have a number of problems over time, even with low HP numbers.

I bought the whole Global West kit - interlocking mounts, Del-A-Lum control arm bushings, 1 1/8 hollow bar and coil springs ( Doug says they are 500# spring rates ).

I installed bolt in connectors and had to take a hacksaw to the back lower bushings so they would clear the inserted connector tops.
Took about a .25" x .25" "circular" nick off each side of each bottom one.
Just cut and try the fit, you will see what I mean.
pdq67

what was this i heard once about using a hockey puck and drilling a 1/2" hole through the center of it and using it for a subframe bushing. is this practical? also, how much are the aluminimum subframe bushings that you are talking about? thanks.

john

Thanks for all of the replys. I checked out the Global West site and will be ordering the bushings next week.

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Pearl blue & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)