Okay, this is getting to be a pain in the @$$! It began with the template I purchased from Guldstrand being off from photocopying by about .100" when I drilled the driver's side mounts. I got those holes welded up (pain in the butt keeping the frame cool, since it has already been powdercoated!!!). I redrafted the template in AutoCad, and after printing, I got the holes at exactly 6.5". I used the conservative .875" front and .775" rear drop for the holes, instead of the alternative that David Pozzi has on his site, 1.160" and .890". I couldn't have gone any lower because now the rear of the passenger side control arm is hitting the frame beneath the rear UCA bushing. The arm will not pivot down so that the upper ball joint can be bolted up. I know I can clearance the frame and the bottom of the control arm, but how much clearance is safe? I don't think I can get the .25" that I have on the driver's side. Why is there such a difference? I double checked the hole locations with a caliper prior to drilling this time, but it seems the mount may be different from the factory. Before powdercoating the frame I checked all of the cross frame measurements listed by the factory. Everything is square, so I know the frame is not bent. As soon as I get my website back online, I'll post the pics of the problem, but for now has anybody got any ideas? Has anyone else with the Guldstrand mod had problems with the rear of the control arm hitting?

Your A arm bushing is hitting the top of the frame rail?

Here are some pics of the problem:

http://webpages.charter.net/mwbing/105-0598_IMG.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/mwbing/105-0593_IMG.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/mwbing/105-0595_IMG.JPG
http://webpages.charter.net/mwbing/105-0597_IMG.JPG

my Nova had a lot of room around the arms. gotta love the old production tolerances.
i wonder how everything will move around once you get some shims in it and tighten it all down?
if it still rubs, it looks like there might be some grinding in your future. grind off the corner of the arm where it rubs, then touch it up.
there is a lesson here- make sure everything fits BEFORE making it pretty..

If the a-arm is hitting the frame, something isn't right.
There should be plenty of room between the arm and the frame at full droop. To be that low on the tower, you must have the rear hole drilled almost right through the bump in the tower on the engine side. I can't see web sites or pictures from Charter.net sites at work.

Yes, I agree with you Novaderrik about doing all of this before making it pretty. This was one of those things where I was going to go with aftermarket control arms that compensate for bumpsteer, and no changes were needed. Now that I've got all the powdercoat done, and all of the expense is adding up, my budget decided that I am going to have to use the stock arms, and so I revisited the Guldstrand mod. All I can say is, it better be worth it! As for adding the shims, I spaced the shaft away from the mounting face by a 1/4 inch, and it still hits.

HwyStarJoe - I can't help on the Charter.net thing, I don't have another web domain, sorry about that. Here are a few more pics of the bolt holes, and the caliper measuring .775" on the rear hole.
http://webpages.charter.net/mwbing/106-0609_IMG.JPG

Here is the bottom hole, clearly above the kick out on the bottom of the mount plate. This is not as low as some I've seen where they are actually coming out at the bend.
http://webpages.charter.net/mwbing/106-0608_IMG.JPG

So, any ideas on how much clearance I need to make here? I'll probably end up notching the frame there. Thanks for the help guys!

[ 12-08-2004, 09:05 AM: Message edited by: CReM@$TeR ]

Bing,

I did this mod 4 years ago, and had EXACTLY the same thing, due to not reading all the directions on David's site. Made me nuts for about an hour.

Drink a six pack, and get out your SawzAll with a new metal cutting blade!

The control arms, because they are lower, are hitting the ears where the original mounts used to be. What you must do is scribe a line, from up in the middle to down at the outsides, at a 45 degree angle, that intersects the bottom edge of the original bolt holes, and CUT THE EARS OFF!

Don't try to get away with less, you need it all. At full droop, my control arms clear the frame brackets by the thinkness of a peice of paper.

A small amount of clearancing at the bottom corners on the front of the a-arms may be required, I didn't have to tho.

Tonight, I'll post a pic that shows it real good, frame's stripped except for the suspension, so you'll see it good.

And no, the strength or anything like that does not seem to have been effected by the cut.

Don't despair, it's worth it.

Thanks JimM. I know that I need to cut the ears off of the top so it doesn't interfere with the underside of the control arm, but I can't even get the passenger side down enough to scribe the marks on the top of the mounting ear because it is hitting the frame at the bottom (see difference in arms on pass and drivers side in first pic). I'd like to see your pics though so I can tell how bad I'm going to have to hack the tops off. I guess there's no going back to stock? (I was hoping I could keep both).

As far as going back to stock, sure why not? The original holes are still there in on peice, you can go back anytime till the sawzall comes out.

But do you really want to?

I studied on this real hard before I did it, and ended up right where you are before it was done. I about died when I bolted the a-arms up and they wouldn't drop down. 10 minutes with the saw, and it was done. The benefits of doing this have been widely discussed. I looked at custom a-arms, too, but they don't fix everything. They give you some caster, but don't address the camber curve.

Before, when you turn hard, I could just feel the tires rolling under and scrubbing, it would start drifting wide, and just plain feel bad. After, the car dives into the corners, and the more you press the throttle, the harder it turns. It feels good, good like my 98 vette did.

One thing some have done is actually cut off the upper arm mount, trim it, and weld it back on a lil aft of normal. This is slick, cause you can't tell it's been changed without using a ruler and another car to compare.

It's just too damn bad you got it pretty first...

I'll get those pics up for you tonight.

Here you can see a few pics of my upper a-arm towers and how I did the mod.
I could have gotten away with cutting a lot less off of the corners of the towers and making it prettier. But you can see where the new holes ended up being drilled.
http://www.geocities.com/hwystarjoe/index4.html

Thanks for your help guys! I think I'm going to go down to the autobody supply and take a piece of the car with the silver powdercoat and have them match me up a rattle can. Then I'll get nasty with the upper mounts there, grind them smooth, mask off the frame and repaint the mounts. The good thing about this whole deal is that they'll be partially covered by the control arm.

JimM - I'd still like to see those pics if you can get 'em. Thanks.

HwystarJoe - Thanks for the pics, it looks to me like your holes are actually offset farther to the rear than mine. Which template did you use? Mine offset them .25" back as was listed on David Pozzi's site.

Thanks again everyone!

Here ya go, Bing
Drivers side
http://home.comcast.net/~jimragtop/gsds.jpg

Pass side
http://home.comcast.net/~jimragtop/gsps.jpg

Close up of rear of pass side a-arm, closest point to subframe
http://home.comcast.net/~jimragtop/gsarm.jpg

It's pretty darn close, but does not touch.
The suspension is in full droop in these photos. And, I'm extremelyjealous of your pretty powdercoating!!! Us poor ole married folk gotta stick with paint.

is that you in those last couple pics, Joe? you's a youngin, gotta be still on the good side of thirty...lol

Hey Jim,

Thanks for the pics. It looks like you really got rid of those ears, I guess that's what I'll be doing, no going back!

By the way, I'm married folk as well, but I let my wife pick this car out about 4 years ago, a kid in the neighborhood was selling it, and she saw it and wanted it. So I can get these things (in moderation of course), by telling her I'm buying stuff for HER car! He he he. I also had to do the Honey-do chores this fall (painted our house that is two stories and every inch of it is lap board siding!!!). So I feel like I've worked my @$$ off and earned a winter of playing with the toys! :D graemlins/hurray.gif :D graemlins/hurray.gif :D

You got to practice painting too! Ours is beveled siding, natural cedar with a tinted waterproofing that needs to be redone every 3 years... If I remember correctly from paying the bill 3 years ago, there's 35,000 square feet of the stuff. Took me six weekends, plus a few days off from work, including 3 days in a rented 36 footbucket lift!

hahahaha, lookee what I found! Was looking for the posts i did when i swapped my trans, and fround my "duplicate" of this thread, from 4 years ago!

http://www.camaros.net/forum/ultimatebb.php/topic/7/243.html#000000

"Still on the good side of thirty."

LOL!! I love you man!!
The good side of thirty was a LOOONG time ago Jim! The first one at the drill press is me. The second one is my friend Rob. He's in his twenties.... I'm old enough to be his father.
graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Bing,
I used the template, like I said, BUT.... I transferred the measurements to the towers free-hand. I marked where the new holes would go off of the centers of the existing holes. Going by what info I got here and from David's site, I center-punched and scribed them, then double-checked with the template.
I figured that if I messed it up, Guldstrand would buy me a new subframe. ;)
I can't remember if I layed a cross-shaft against my scribed marks before drilling or not. I'll tell ya that I was NERVOUS as hell when I set that drill bit against my first mark and pulled the trigger! I could always buy new towers and replace tham if I needed to anyway, so no big deal.

When I did mime, I drilled the first hole, put a bolt in it, and slide the haft on to make sure my second mark was in the middle os the hole.

The entire evolution was VERY hard on the nerves. I did it with the car together, sitting in the wheelwell. It took considerable courage of the liquid variety to start the drill, unbelievable amounts of cursing(used ot be in the Navy) when the a-arm wouldn't drop down, and complete sobriety to get out the sawzall...but it worked, and I didn't even sawzall any plug wires!

Jim,

I can't even imagine doing this project with the subframe still in the car and the fender wells in. Even with the problems I've had, I'm still thankful that I have room to manuever.

I still haven't gotten up the nerve to sawzall the thing yet. I think this weekend I'll try to scribe some nice stock looking curved lines then grind until I've got clearance, and then try to find a window of warm temp to touch it up.

I'd use my trusty, 4.5" angle grinder with a thin cut-off wheel on it instead of the Sawz-all b/c I can take a schosh off here and there until everything fits with minimal metal trimming overall!

BUT, I'm not going to do the conversion tho, maybe down the road???

pdq67

HECK, where's onna them new-fangled, "Plasma-Cutters" the better healed guy's are talking about buyin'??

Just imagine me squating in the fenderwell, trying to hold down a sawzall...May have been doing it with the a-arms on at that point, too... not easy to get them in and out with everything together.