Anyone on the board have a set of Spindle extenders that would like to get rid of? Trying to save money redface.gif $179.95 is a bit steep for me...

email me at wdonovan@austin.rr.com

Welcome to Team Camaro.
Check into the Guldstrand mod, it costs nothing. I think the spindle spacer goes too far.
David

Thanks David!

I was going to do the Guldstrand mod but backed out. I even drilled the holes already. I just didn't want to permenantly modify the rest of the stuff. Shaving the mount or arms especially. (both areas appear to undermine strength if shaved) I like the fact that the extender can be removed.

From what I have been able to absorb, I will be able to tune the extender in with the heavier springs and a lower ride by cutting the springs. If there is still bump steer/tire scrub I can invest in a set of adjustible outer tie rods later. 'Course the scrub will still be there for the most part but I guess I'd like to see if it is manageable.

I've even wondered if some material could be taken from an extra set of spindles to accomodate the extender some and remove a bit of overall length.

It seems to me if I adhere closely to the specs outlined for the extender, it may not be all that bad. (amateur thinking)

consider getting an extra set of upper A frames and modifying them for clearance. I think the tubular ones clear OK too.

The extenders don't have anything to keep the extender centered over the tapered spindle hole, and the bolt that goes through there is a straight bolt. While it is tight, I guess it stays OK, but if it ever starts to slip back and forth, it will fatigue the bolt and snap it.

To be honest, most of what I know about these spacers is from people here at the forum. I haven't actually seen these in person, so I may be wrong on some details.
They raise the upper ball joint 2 15/16" which is more than twice what the Guldstrand mod does. I think that is way too much for a street or street/track Camaro.

Another option is a replacement upper balljoint that is taller. there are race models that use spherical bearings that might last long enough on a street driven car if it is of high enough quality.
Check with AFCO or Coleman racing.
David

Good or bad you've got me sitting back on the fence... graemlins/angry.gif ;) Where can I find some detailed pics of mods needed on the A-arms?

Poncho,

I hear ya when you express concern about the a-arm shaft mounts loosing some strength when the top corners are cut to clear the arms. The first thing I did after doing the Guldstrand mod was to email David and ask him if the towers were going to break. smile.gif
If I had known I could modify the arms themselves, I probably would have done that before cutting the towers so much.

Could I have gotten away with removing less of the tower corners and made appropriate cuts to the arms also? I'm not really worried about it anyway. can always add strengthening peices to the towers.

I haven't looked at the upper arms with the idea of cutting them for clearance. I was just "thinking out loud".
I think it could be done but you would have to add some reinforcements for strength. You would still have to cut the bracing for the mounts that run crosswise as the arms will hit there in full droop and you can't cut that part of the arms.

Another trick that enabled me to cut slightly less off the frame mount was using Guldstrand offset steel bushings and rotating them for max height of the A frame. You still have to cut a lot off the mount though.
David

Just thinking out loud here....

What would be the effect of bolting the stock replacement upper ball joint under the control arm instead of on top where it's supposed to go?

I know that would put more stress on the retaining bolts, and if they broke it wouldn't be pretty....

Wow Bret that's close to something I was just wondering about this. Not only bolt the ball joint under but put a spacer between the arm and ball joint there. Say 1" ??

You can't quite bolt the Ball Joint under because there isn't enough room to clear the lip but a properly made metal spacer put in there to shim might do it!

Good thought, but it wouldn't change anything.
It is the pivot point that needs to be raised, and that is inside the ball joint.
There used to be a ball joint by Lakewood that had a taller stud. It was for drag racing, not really for hard cornering. It would have helped.
There are uppers for circle track use, made with a spherical bearing that use shims to adjust height and camber curve. I don't know how long they would last on the street.
David

dang your right. Ok I could always try not complicating it and do the mod as it stands. hmm

The spacer thing has already been done......and as you can see and hear more to the point, is that you dont hear or see anything about it as it didnt accomplish was was intended.

Even if you were to use a taller spindle, the control arm still needs to be moved. I mean we are looking at 35 year old suspension technology. Applying what we know now, is the reason we know that the arm needs to be moved.....by one means or another. The difference between the DSE and Guldstrand modification is not all that much.....now if you combine the Guldstrand mod with the cheaper Global West control arms, you are closer to where you need to be without effecting more of the suspension geometry than necessary.

David I have used the adjustable upper before and depending on how hard you pound on the car.....they last about 10 months.....12 if you use the 'Seals It' rodend seals.

I have them on my car now but it is not finished by no stretch of the immagination so can't tell you how they are.

The extenders raise the upper B/J, 1-15/16" as measured and per Pro-Motorsports.

I do know that I will probably need to either use the upper offset shafts, custom shorter upper A-arms or rework my stock ones over so that the arms are short enough to be used properly!

I say this b/c a sketch of all this shows that per stock, the extenders move the upper B/J over quite a distance so to keep everything in the right perspective, the upper arms have to be shortened or something...

Draw up the spindle/B/J/tire mount flange face triangle AND you will see what I mean.

I think about an 8.75 degree spindle lean from plumb from the tire mount flange starting from ther lower B/J will get you there...

The triangle is the upper B/J point, lower B/J point and 90 degree angle up top plumb from the tire mount flange....pdq67

I have spindle extenders on my car - driven 9000 miles on them and I am quite satisfied.
You need about -1/2 to -3/4 degree camber and as much caster as you can get.
No need to modify anything

Good info PDQ. I wasnt sure on the overall measurements of said device.

What I am having trouble figuring out is if what BrianW says is right on??

Please don't get me wrong Brian b/c I have the spec's from Pro-Motorsports and I have also rough sketched up the general layout of my frontend AND it just seems to me that looking at the sketch that the upper A-arm has to be shortened, (or moved in), the ratio distance difference from the stock position vs the new raised position OR nothing changes!!

In other words, it appears to me the tire would just lean out more. --- And not what we want to accompolish...

You add what is it the vertical component of 1-15/16" thats on both B/J's centerline to the plumb line of the triangle and then go up and over and add the horizontal component to the upper B/J line AND it sure looks like the upper B/J is moved over like what 1/2" or maybe even 3/4"!!!

So can you adjust this much out of the upper A-arm at the upper pivot shaft using shims or AM I MISSING SOMETHING???

Is anybody able to really lay this stuff out using a CAD system to double check me???

Please advise but I'm gonna run the extenders regardless of this and just make sure the upper A-arms are shimmed right. But it sure would be nice to know just whats going on as well as how much the front roll center is raised... pdq67

PS., BTW, Brian, I'm one of them "hard-headed" "Show-Me" state guy's is all, no reflection on you at all!

PDQ67, Look at it like this; Gouldstrand mod moves the inboard end of the wishbone down; spindle extender moves the outboard end of the wishbone up which has the same result.
When the suspension is installed and the car at ride height you can see why it works because of the angle of the wishbone; the outer end which is now moving inward on suspension compression as the wish bone at ride height is pointing upward looking from the center of the car and not downward as in the standard configuration