I'm currently adding steering box info to my web page.
Can anyone tell me the factory steering ratios in the factory literature for 67, 68 and 69 Camaros?
I'm particularly interested in the PS ratios, and want both the steering box ratio and overall ratios if possible.
Please be clear if you are refering to box or oveall ratio when posting.
I'm trying to figure out how GM did the different ratios and what effect it had on oveall lock to lock turns.
69 was different because it had the variable ratio box.
Thanks, David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

David,
Are you talking about just turning the steering gearbox lock to lock and counting the turns???

And then measuring the bolt on spindle arms and pitman arm??

Will turn mine tonight for you. I ordered my car with the optional non-power quick ratio steering. pdq67

My car is back at home while I am here at school, but I have a '68 with low performance power steering and I remember hearing something about the box being a 9.1:1 fixed ratio? I don't know if that is right. I can let you know what my lock to lock turning is tomorrow or the next day. Also might want to make sure that people giving you the info on that are using a stock diameter steering wheel or else they will mess up your data.

What I'm looking for is factory sales brochure data, or parts catalog data, assembly manual, overhaul manual etc.
Steering ratio, both for the box itself, and overall ratio which allows for the increase/decrease of the long or short pitman arms and outer steering arms.
So far the numbers I have are:
67- PS std 17.5 to 1
optional fast ratio PS - 15.6 to 1
I think it's the box ratio, that's what the service manual says.
69 - Camaro had a variable ratio box with two ratios: 16 to 1 on center, 12.4 1 at 14 degrees.
15.5 on center and 11.8 at 14 degrees.
I'm trying to figure this stuff out to determine the actual oveall ratio when you upgrade to a new style 12 to 1 box with either the long or short pitman arms, and long or short outer steering arms.
Lock to lock info would be nice, but only if you know the actual steering ratio, so I can relate it to that.
Thanks, David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

My box off my car in the basement turns 6.5 revolutions. I will have to mount it back on my car to give you what you want because the steering arms limited its actual turning number. I have the short steering arms on my car, if thats helpful. Will get back to you. pdq67

Here are the '69 steering spec's according to "The 69 Camaro Reference Book" by John R. Hooper....

Regular, variable ratio steering --
16.1:1 to 12.4:1, 15.5:1 overall on center

Fast, variable ratio steering --
16.1:1 to 12.4:1, 14.3:1 overall on center

I'm assuming this means the box is 16.1-12.4 variable ratio and the steering arms change from 15.5 to 14.3 overall. Not sure though.

TMessick,
Thanks a lot for the data.

Yes I think you are on the right track, that's exactly what I'm looking for.
Do you have that data for the 67 and 68 Camaros?
And also can you add the manual steering data too?
If I get all that, I want to first compare it and try and figure out what pitman and outer steering arms they used, then calculate the overall ratio using a 12 to 1 late style box.

Pdq, yours must be a manual box? I had a friend with a 69 Z/28 and he had about 6 turns lock to lock. My racer has about 4 turns but it's modified - A lot.
Thanks, David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

Found some more info in the book (just have info for '69 since that's all I own). This stuff was hidden on the same page right above what I posted before (guess I'm not thinking just right)

(Standard Steering)
Steering Gear Ratio -
Regular -- 24:1, 28.3:1 overall

N44 -- 24:1, 28.3:1 overall

Z28 & N44 -- 20:1, 17.9:1 overall

May want to "sample" the 67-68 Camaro Reference book if you can find it at your local library/bookstore. The steering data should be in the back...

-Troy

Probly not much help here but I'm pretty sure with power steering (have no idea about manual) you got either 4-4.5 turns lock to lock or 3-3.5 turns this is overall. I got a fast ratio box in my car and will try to get some numbers off it (maybe to see what ratio it has?) if you want let me know.

Thanks for the manual box data, I want to include it on my page.
I'm not getting the same difference between arms that Chevy did.
67stock, lock to lock would be interesting, there are no numbers on the box that tell what it is.
There was a ink stamped two letter code, I have heard.
One box I have has a sticker but I can't read it.
There is a stamped date code on the aluminum top.
David


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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

David,
Haven't forgotten you! It's just a case of "lazy A-s". I will loosely bolt everything back together for you in a little bit. Please bear with me. pdq67

PS, Mine is quick ratio, non-power!!

I called a place,here in Phoenix,called ATSCO,they rebuild PS stuff.I wanted a non variable,same steering stop,direct bolt in ,quicker box.I called the tech line,and talked to Mark.I ended up with,what he called ,an F41 box.It's 2.75 turns lock to lock.It cost 219$-had no core charge. Oh,also wanted better steering feel/feedback.

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68 z28 ,68 rs 327 ,73 454 vette, 2 goofy kids

David -

I have a copy of the original AMA specifications issued by Chevrolet Engineering on 12-1-68 for both the 1969 standard car and for the Z28; steering detail as follows:

Standard Car:
Manual - 24:1 Gear, 28.3:1 Overall, 4.8 steering wheel turns stop-to-stop.
Power - 16.0:1 - 12.4:1 Gear, Overall 15.5:1 - 11.8:1, 2.2 steering wheel turns stop-to-stop.

Z-28 Option:
Manual - 24:1 Gear, 21.6:1 Overall, 3.5 steering wheel turns stop-to-stop.
"Fast Steer" Manual (Z28 only) - 20:1 Gear, Overall 17.9:1, 2.9 steering wheel turns stop-to-stop.
Power - 16.0:1 - 12.4:1 Gear, Overall 14.3:1 - 10.8:1, 2.06 steering wheel turns stop-to-stop. (This is RPO N44, included as part of N40 on Z28's and SS).

Hope this helps the research.

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JohnZ
'69 Z28 Fathom Green

Watch out when you compare lock to lock numbers on 67 (and maybe 68) power steering to 69 power steering boxes, when they are not in the car. 67's have internal stops in the box that limits the rotation of the pitman shaft. 69's do not have these stops. The steering arms on 69's will actually hit a small stop on the lower control arm which is what limits the number of turns the steering box can make. If you just have a 69 PS box on the shelf and count turns, you will always come up with a higher number of turns than if it was in the car.


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Mark Canning
1969 Indy Pace Car
350/300HP RPO Z11

I will bolt mine back in the car and tell everybody what my early '67 optional fast ratio non-power lock ta lock is this weekend when it's supposed ta warm up to 50.

It seems like it was 3.5 turns but it's been a long time now!! pdq67

John, thanks for the added info.
It extends the TMessick numbers, and is the most complete info I have seen yet.

MarkC,
I have some past info you provided on steering components we discussed Apr of last year on the CRG forum. I dug it out and started reviewing it when I began cleaning up my 67 Camaro steering box to send out for a rebuild.
There seemed to be a lot of steering box questions on the forum lately and it got me motivated to put something together.
When measuring pitman arms and outer steering arms I'm not getting the ratio increase that the factory specs show.
Also, the lock lock on a bare box is more on my 67 box than on the 69 box I have. 67 is 4.25 turns lock to lock. The 69 is 2.3 turns lock to lock.

The parts I have bench measured so far are:
67 and 69 long ps pitman arms - 5 3/4"
69 ps outer steering arms - 5.25"
I believe the short ps pitman is 5.25" I have measured it on the car. And I assume the manual long and short pitman arms are the same.
I have a manual long arm I will measure, and have a ps short arm on a parts car I will re check.
So I still will need a manual short pitman measurement, and a long (manual standard?) outer arm length from center of ball joint to center of steering link.
This thing's driving me nuts!
Thanks again, David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 03-06-2001).]

David,

Just got through putting everything back together to turn it.

My early '67 with the F-41 suspension and optional fast ratio non-power "tilt column" steering turns 3.5 turns lock to lock!!

And that is being stopped by the "short" steering arms bump stops.

I don't know if my steering arms or pitman and gear box have any part numbers on them that are readable or not because I'm lazy and haven't cleaned the crud off any to find out. pdq67

Do you have the long pitman arm?
And you have the short outer steering arms?

I have read data there is a 28 to 1 box ratio used on BB or SB with air cond with std steering, at least for 67-68.
I still need a "long" outer arm length.
I looked at some of my old data for my 67 and it shows 25 degrees from straight ahead max available turning angle for a 67.
I think I measured this by putting my Camaro on a turntable and going to max lock.
So the total is 50 degrees lock to lock on the front wheels.
I'd like to find out what the second and third gen are for comparison.
Thanks, David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 03-10-2001).]

David, I currently have manual with the short pitman and long ( normal ) steering arms. I'll pull measurements tomorrow. I picked up a set of power steering outer steering arms to quicken the ratio up after some past posts with you. Also, am looking to get the longer pitman. Rick's has them although they are a bit pricey. I'll be back tomorrow during the day.

David,

Yes, have the long pitman arm and short outer arms.

RickD, try your local friendly parts house because they might by chance have access to some that haven't been scarffed up by Rareparts and made into NOS stuff for more money. I did for my P/S pitman. They are in the $40/$50 range though. pdq67