A friend of mine was asking me whats involved regarding converting to the JL8 style brakes.
I do know that there are 2 different front brake calipers, for 67/68 Camaro,s and FireBirds, i think the difference is in the bore size. The small bore calipers= 1"&7/8" and the big bore= 2"&1/8"? bore size.
Are these Big Bore Calipers the same as the JL8 Cars originally had in the front? What about the Dust Shields and Brackets.?
Are the Corvette ( 65-82 ) Calipers/Rotors/E Brake mounting hardware and caliper mounting bracket also the same as the JL8 cars? or are they Unique? Can a Person Use the Corvette stuff for a Upgrade?
He,s Not trying to make a phony car, he just wants to upgrade his brakes, circa 1969 style, for increased stopping power.
I also know that there are companys who make a conversion using C5 Corvette stuff, but he wants to keep it looking original?
Also is the master cylinder the same (US stamp ), without the proportioning valve.?
Thanks for any Help.

From what I know of the JL8 brakes, they are all pretty much corvette stuff. Although, the front brackets are unique to the camaro only. I believe the rear brackets where 2 right side brackets from the corvette. The master was from a corvette as well as the proportioning valve. Chevrolet pulled parts out of it`s parts bins to build the setup for the camaro racers. They didn`t develop a whole new brake system.

I just did this conversion last year. For the fronts, there are several people selling the brackets. There is one guy on eBAY that sells a pair about every three weeks it seems. His bracket is stamped from 1/4" steel. This is what I used. I was very happy with them, and paid only $150. Vette Brakes and Products makes a set, as does Master Power. For the front spindles, I used one disc spindle, and one drum spindle with the upper boss machined down. (A note on this: the threads are not cut as far down on the drum spindle, so you will need to tap more threads. Use a tap meant for bottoming out. Also, find a place that specializes in bolts, because that bolt is hard to find anywhere else.) The rotors and calipers are pure Corvette. I got my calipers from www.calipersonline.com, (http://www.calipersonline.com,) for $87/piece. These are SS sleeved, rebuilt Delco units. I also used braided SS flex lines. These are listed for the Camaro with disc brakes.

The rear is more complex. From what I read, GM did use the Corvette caliper brackets, but they used two right hand parts. However, these brackets don't bolt to the Camaro axle. I cut off the original brake mounting flange, and welded on a new one. I used a Corvette bracket as a template for the flange. I did not use two right hand parts. I simply clocked the calipers both to the 12 o'clock position. Make sure you check for clearance to the shocks when you do this. I have not setup the e-brake yet, but all the Corvette internals will work. The only tricky part will be cables.

For the lines, I bought a complete SS set from NPD. They fit great. I then added a rebuilt JL8 master cylinder and booster from NPD. Now for the best part, the JL8 system uses the same distribution block as the four wheel drum cars. This piece is hard to find, so don't throw it away like I did. The proportioning is accomplished by the different size pistons in the calipers.

I can't answer your questions about dust shields, because I don't have them. Let me know if you have any other questions. I also have pics I can email you.

Thanks
Ken

didn't the 67 and 68 A bodies also use the same calipers and brackets as the 67/68 Camaro? that would make sense to me, as all the other brake parts were the same between the cars.

BB69,
If the caliper is at 12oclock, how can you bleed them?
6 and 12 is the worst mounting point, not only for bleeding problems but any axle flex or play will be the highest at those points.
I've seen the L and R vette brackets mounted the same as on vettes, and it works fine on a camaro. The LH caliper to shock is a little close that way, but it doesn't hit.
David

David,
I guess I should have said my way is not ideal. I have to admit, I was not completely happy with it; thanks for pointing that out. However, whether or not the calipers clear the shocks depends on how the brake flange is welded on.

Ken

In Guinn's book it mentions having to shorten the rear axles, was this necessary? Also there is a lot of discussion on JL8 conversion right now, so let me see if I've got this straight: The front vette calipers will bolt directly to the JL8 brackets and use the drum spindles, the rear uses 2 right side vette brackets (or not). Will the use of 82 series Koni shocks make a difference in the clearance on the rear? They are a larger diameter than the 80 series Classics. Also are the vette calipers 68& earlier or 69 on?

bt61: Shortening the axles is necessary so the rotor and brake caliper could be centered.

I did NOT shorten the axles, and the rotors are centered in the calipers. However, I cut off the original brake flange, made a new one, and welded it on. To determine where to weld the new flanges, I simply mocked up the whole system with the axles, rotors, calipers, brackets, and brake pads. The original JL8 axles used a different brake flange. A standard 10 or 12 bolt brake flange will not bolt up to a Corvette caliper bracket. I don't know of anyone selling an adaptor to go between the Camaro brake flange and the Corvette caliper bracket. I have heard of one existing, but I couldn't find it.

If you are going to make your own flange, the shocks shouldn't be an issue. Just learn from my mistake, and mount the calipers on an angle, not at 12 or 6 o'clock as Dabid mentioned. (I will probably be changing mine.) You can always bend the brake lines to fit.

For the front, the Corvette calipers bolted right to the brackets I bought on eBAY. As for the calipers, they are listed as 68-82 Vette calipers.

Sorry, I forgot to mention, the brackets will not bolt to the drum spindles without first machining down the upper boss on the spindle. You must also tap more threads into this boss on the drum spindle. Finally, you will need to find a new bolt to go in this boss. I suggest you find a store that specializes in fasteners. I used my drum hubs for the front. If anyone would like pics, please email me. Also, if someone would like to host them, so we can post them, I will email them to you. I haven't mastered that art yet.

Ken

what year rear brackets do i need

That same guy who sells the JL8 BKTS on Ebay has a web site that sells a lot of JL8 parts incl the shields. I was told that the Vette rotors bolt right onto the Camaro drum spindles with no mods needed.
Anybody ever run these brakes hard for comparison???

WWW.CROSSRAM.COM for JL8 BKTS and accys

gm-man i made a drawing of the rear axle flange if someone wants to post it.i am working on doing JL8 for my RS & have made drawings for most of it.you can see what the front & rear assembly look like.

BB69,
If the caliper is at 12oclock, how can you bleed them?
6 and 12 is the worst mounting point, not only for bleeding problems but any axle flex or play will be the highest at those points.
I've seen the L and R vette brackets mounted the same as on vettes, and it works fine on a camaro. The LH caliper to shock is a little close that way, but it doesn't hit.
David


I was reading your response on the rear brake thread and you stated that 12 oclock is a bad position for the brakes on a 67 could you tell me what would be the best position on the 67 with forward shocks. I am in the process of setting this up and am going to biuld brackets unless you can tell me where to get brackets to make my pbr calipers to work.

Thanks
fred

BB69,
If the caliper is at 12oclock, how can you bleed them?
6 and 12 is the worst mounting point, not only for bleeding problems but any axle flex or play will be the highest at those points.
I've seen the L and R vette brackets mounted the same as on vettes, and it works fine on a camaro. The LH caliper to shock is a little close that way, but it doesn't hit.
David
david do you mean the center of the caliper is at 12oclock,or the axle housing flange. i looked at a JL8 rear end & it had the rear edge of the flange leaned back at the top 1 degree from the rear cover surface. which put the bleeder valve just above level, i made a drawing if you want to see it. thanks mark.

Sorry guys, I haven't been here for a while. I wanted to answer some of the questions I saw.

1. David means that the caliper itself should not be clocked so it's horizontal. If it's horizontal, air will be trapped in the caliper and you can't bleed them. Other than that, you can clock them wherever they don't hit the shocks. Even with new SS brake lines, I simply used a tubing bender to carefully bend the lines so they fit the caliper location.

2. The calipers and rotors are identical to what was used on C3 Corvettes from 68-82 (I believe also the C2 Vette, which was a few years earlier, but I'm not positive). I have a 69 Vette and I have used my brakes hard, on the street and at the track, and they work great. There are two keys to making them work 1) bleed them regularly 2) use good pads. I put fresh fluid in and installed Hawk HP Plus pads. The braking on my Vette is unbelievable with NO fade. The pads just work better as they get hot.

3. The Vette rotor will fit the Camaro spindle/hub, but the caliper bracket will NOT bolt directly to the drum spindle. The drum spindle and the disc spindle are the same except for the upper brake mounting boss. This boss has to be machined down on the drum spindle and the threads tapped deeper.

I will post a link to some pics when I get home.

Ken

OK, This may be long but I think it combines a lot of useful information in one place.
I have been watching this post pretty close and doing a lot of research from old posts. Correct me if I am wrong please as I am about to start this project for my 67 with manual drums this winter.

Davidpozzi's CBB is for the most part the same as a JL8 setup.

C3 corvette front rotors (11.75x1.25 - 5 on 4 3/4)

Using the 1st gen. drum hubs

Using the 1st gen. drum spindles

I plan to use the mid 70's heavy duty Chevy C10 calipers (big bore to offset the larger bore on my rear calipers from a 77 Fleetwood)

Does any body have an AutoCAD drawing to cut the bracket for this setup? I plan use 1/4 steel plate. I have seen information for the 13 inch C4 setup and the setup from 4th gen camaros but its just not the same.
OR.....
Would I be better off if I decided to go with the JL8 brackets sold by Crossram.com or MP or VB. I know that I would have to machine my drum brake spindle upper caliper bracket mount right? Do we have any information of brackets we could go to a wrecking yard and get that would work?

I am not to worried about the rear right now I think I have it figured out. As some of you know I am trying a disc setup from a 77 Fleetwood, i.e. the #223 calipers and brackets. The rear rotors for a 79 TA are a perfect match to the Caddi originals except with a 5 on 4 3/4 bolt pattern (11X1). The calipers will be staggered. Same part number caliper on each side, I am about 75% sure I will have to relocate the passenger side shock it does not look to be enough clearance. I have a set of Lakewood traction bars for my lower shock mount and it has a couple of different places to mount the shock. 67 shocks were not staggered but what is the difference in the 68? was it just the lower shock plate or was their and actual different location for the upper mount in the trunk floor?

I am thinking about my choices for the master cylinder with my 4 whl disc brake setup. Should I use the MC/booster from a 79 TA or does anybody know of a better choice? Possibly the MC from the Caddi? I want to make sure I have enough fluid movement for adequate pressure front and rear with the big caliper bore sizes involved.

I plan to use the proportioning valve assembly from the Caddi, I am almost positive that the front caliper bore size for the Caddi is the same as the C10. I also am thinking that i will need to use the metering block that is inline mounted to the rear of the subframe under the driver’s side.

I am not too worried about brake lines and e-brake cables right now but I do know that I want it to look stock and will probably go through all my catalogs for Raybestos that show specs on these lines/hoses. I know I will most likely need to weld in a few brackets for the E-brake cables for the #223 calipers but that should be simple stuff.

One more question….15 inch wheels should fit my front setup right? I have 15x7 Chevy Rally’s up front and I believe the BS on these is 3 ½”.

Am I missing anything?

Thanks for any info that would help our other members.

Several questions:

What diameters were the original JL8 rotors?
What is the bore size of the Corvette master cylinder?
Will 15" Ralley wheels fit over these JL8 brakes?

What diameters were the original JL8 rotors? 11 3/4"
What is the bore size of the Corvette master cylinder? 1" for manual brakes, 1 1/8" for power brakes.
Will 15" Ralley wheels fit over these JL8 brakes? Corvette ralley wheels will. Most 15" ralley wheels should, because that's what the JL8 came with, some ralley wheels are different.

The Corvette four piston calipers stick out a lot so check wheel clearance.

The JL8 brakes work very well on a Camaro, they have great feel and front to rear balance is very good.

A fiew things to take note of:
Corvette rotors have aprox .100" more inset (backspace) in the rear, so use rear rotors on the rear of a Camaro, front rotors on front.

The front rotors sit very close to the top caliper bracket bolt on the spindle. Some aftermarket brackets are 3/8" thick and this uses up some of the available clearance. The rotor still clears OK as long as you use the front corvette rotors.

You need longer wheel studs, the drum studs are too short. Corvette studs should work, but 1/2" thick studs would be safer for track or autocross use.

I have a buddy with a 69 Camaro and way back when, he bought a JL8 housing and converted his car. He didn't know GM used the same corvette adapter bracket on both sides, he used a LH Corvette bracket on the left side and it worked great, didn't hit the shock. If you were to use an aluminum Koni double adjustable shock, it might be close, but normal shocks should clear. The housing bracket would have to be changed to the corvette pattern to duplicate a JL8 housing. There isn't enough "meat" on the stock flange to redrill.

The GM instructions for converting to JL8 mention a half inch longer axle that must be shortened. After some discussion with some guys at CRG, the instructions really are about converting a "big car" 12 bolt axle to fit in a Camaro, and it is wider by 1/2" per side. So, ignore that stuff if you are working on a regular Camaro axle.

Can I use the JL8 caliper mounting bracket for my CBB project? This is what I am using.
C3 Corvette front rotors
Drum hub
Chevy C10 calipers

For reference :)
---------

More pics

still more

more :) !!!

more yet

tell me when you have enough pics :)

last set and yes that stamp is a QY and org to the car :)

Hawaiian camaro
can you take some pics of the e brake cable bracket welded on top of axle tube & from the back side of the lower one on the left side.& a front hose bracket on the frame. also what is the distance between the rotor surface from side to side on the rear axle. thanks

OK, so the JL8 caliper bracket is only for the dual piston caliper. I will have to use and modify the 69 style caliper bracket. The 67-8 style bracket will not work with the C10 caliper because 7-8 was a twin piston caliper also.

OK, so the JL8 caliper bracket is only for the dual piston caliper. I will have to use and modify the 69 style caliper bracket. The 67-8 style bracket will not work with the C10 caliper because 7-8 was a twin piston caliper also.

I have some photos of stock single piston caliper brackets that have been modified for CBB use, they are on my web page. They need to be moved out half the difference in rotor diameter, = 3/8".

Thanks DP,

Sorry all for jumping the post but thought it better to continue under this thread instead of starting a new one with the same information. A lot of that already.

DP, your site has been very helpful already.
I picked up my rotors the other night. Raybestos PG plus (made in USA) #s 5500 (C3 Corvette front) and 5044 (79 Trans Am rear).
I should get my brackets in about a week.
Part numbers on my front calipers are Raybesto's also
FRC4213 and FRC4214


Is "makoshark" still around?
Do you have any guesses as to backing plates or even which brake hoses to use? I would like to have backing plates but not a requirement. What about a plate from a big car like an impala wagon or cop car?

Which master cylinder/booster combo do you think would be the best choice? I was going to use 79 trans am style but am starting to second guess myself.

I will make sure I get all my information together incase you wanted to post on your site DP.

Does anyone have a list of the parts needed to convert a '69 model to JL8 brakes? I do see the bracets for sale on eBay.

X33D80
Try
www.crossram.com
Just about everything is available in the aftermarket world also. Just a quick search at schucks.com (partsamerica.com) I found the following. These are the internet prices and will be different for instore prices, usually prices are higher in the store from experience. This is just to give you an idea what is available and what I found in a few short minutes, by no means am I endorsing the companies listed below or Schucks or partsamerica.com. Keep in mind that all of this stuff has varying warranties and is probably all special order stuff.

Calipers
Bendix (unloaded, without pads)
Fr Rt R55329 $103.99 ~ $50.00 core
Fr Lt R55330 $103.99 ~ $50.00 core
Rears R55331 $103.99 ~ $47.00 core (ea)
Bendix (loaded, with pads)
Fr Rt L55329 $139.99 ~ $40.00 core
Fr Lt L55330 $139.99 ~ $40.00 core
Rears L55331 $139.99 ~ $10.00 core (ea)

Rotors ~ Pretty sure that is 65-82 Corvette OE stuff
Raybestos (import stuff)
Front 5500RGS $34.99
Rear 5501RGS $32.99
Raybestos PG Plus (made in USA)
Front 5500 $94.99
Rear 5501 $101.99

Pads are the same front and rear (need two sets)
Raybestos Brute Stop
BD8M $59.99
Raybestos Premium (Blue box)
PGD8M $28.99
Raybestos (red box)
RRD8 $23.99

Master Cylinder (I think this is the right one)
Bendix
R11494 $19.99 ~ $10.00 core

Booster
Bendix
R2518104 $97.99 ~ $20.00 core
(website showed this as a hydrovac type booster which I am sure is a typo....hydrovac doesnt use a booster..HELLO??..)

I did not find any listing for the brake hoses but I am sure they can be found at crossram.com or Ricks first gen or NPD or Classic Industries and maybe even 396.com (our site sponser :)

Brackets the same thing....Ricks, NPD, CI. I am sure crossram.com has them.

Hope this helps....did I miss anything?