Anyone take a complete 4th gen f-body (93-02, I think they used the same rear set up) rear disc kit, and put it on there 1st gen?

If so, where you able to use the 4th gen caliper brackets?

What about parking brake hook-up? Where you able to connect your factory cables to the late model stuff?

Thanks

Do a search on "rear disc". I think you have to use the right side mounting braket on both sides for clearance issues.

http://www.geocities.com/torkerscamaro/torker.html

I am presently installing this set-up & received my two RH brackets today. What I don't like is they both will have the caliper at approximately the 7 or 8 o'clock position. I would prefer the 9 or 10 o'clock position.
Considering that the RH & LH are probably mirror images of each other, I think the better choice might be two LH brackets and two RH calipers.
Does anyone out there have a LH bracket who can comment on the fit?
I am contemplating taking a chance by exchanging these for LH brackets, or re-drilling the mounting holes.
If I were ordering again I might consider purchasing a LH & RH bracket, then exchanging one of them.

Originally posted by CarlC:
http://www.geocities.com/torkerscamaro/torker.html Good info. From the looks of it, if you had the 4th gen set-up, and were putting them on a staggared shock car, you could just re-drill the caliper brackets. But you'd still have to have two RH calipers.

a little off subject, but would a complete rear end including axles differential, etc from a 2001/2002 Camaro fit on a 68 Camaro?

Originally posted by Liveinaz:
a little off subject, but would a complete rear end including axles differential, etc from a 2001/2002 Camaro fit on a 68 Camaro? Actual width, I don't know. But they use a totally different suspension, so you'd have to strip all it's brakets off and add your leaf spring pearches. Also, those rears are 7.5" as compared to a 1st gens 8.2", so they're even weaker.

I should clarify... I am installing the '93 to '97 Camaro rear discs based on Torkers information. Yes, drilling new mounting holes is probably the option that I will take. I would love to try LH caliper brackets, but don't want to spend more money again.
If I had a friend in the junk-yard business I could perhaps borrow this bracket just for reference.

Stupid question??

But can you flip one side and mount it up side down so both point to the front??

I would sure try it.....

pdq67

Same question popped up in my head also as in pdq67's head. Turn them upside down? Only if they are flat, I guess.

Can't flip them over, the offsets won't work.

Both calipers cannot face the front on staggered shock cars. To work on staggered shock cars two right-hand brackets and calipers are needed.

There's no work required to make these brackets work on our cars. It's stricly a bolt-in deal. I do not believe that they can be re-clocked "higher up" in the wheel. The rear frame rail will get in the way.

The only minor modification that might be required is if the brackets are used with a large Ford axle bearing. In these applications the bearing sticks out a bit above the axle flange. The caliper bracket holds the bearing in. Since the system was originally designed for the caliper bracket to sit flush with the axle flange there may be an interference problem. Since the caliper bracket would be farther outboard, and the caliper is mounted to the caliper bracket, interference between the inboard side of the rotor and caliper cradle (the cast iron part that the caliper floats in, I did not want to call it a caliper bracket in order to avoid confusion) may occur. The best fix is to mill off the outboard of the caliper bracket mounting surface the same amount as the bearing stickout. Mine just clears without milling. If this problem is not figured out before the bearings are pressed on it becomes an expensive exercise in frustration.

[ 12-28-2004, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: CarlC ]

When doing using the late model calipers, I'm assuming the hoses that go with them are to be used. When connecting those hoses to a hard-line, are those metric fittings?

I'm in the middle of installing a 69 12 bolt rear end with a Corvette disc brake set-up on it in my 68 Camaro with staggered shocks. We just ran into the caliper on the right side hitting the shock. Does anybody see a way to make this work? Do I need to get new calipers or mounting brackets or just go back to drum? Thanks.. :(

This evening I mocked up the rear '95 Camaro brackets and calipers on the car. With the already drilled holes the passenger side sits 6 degrees below horizontal, and the drivers side is 30 degrees below horizontal. I can live with the 6 degrees, but want to level out the drivers side by drilling new holes.
I don't see any clearance problems with the frame rails on either side.
Does anyone have photos of how the e-brake cables connect? I want to make sure that I am placing these things in an angle that will connect properly. Do I need to add a bracket for these e-brake cables? There is a tab on the caliper for this, but the cable sheathnig needs something to attach to.
I'll be watching for a mid 90's Camaro this weekend to peep under.

Today I got to look at a '95 Camaro. Looks like the "loaded" rear calipers do not include some basic parts for the e-brakes. I took a few photos and can now to to the local GM dealer to get the rest of the parts.
Once I have them I will make the decision of how to orient the brakes on the hub.

Sounds good. Keep us posted.

Here is the scoop -
I viewed a friends '95 Camaro this weekend. The "loaded" rear brake calipers that you buy from Rockauto.com do not include the parking brake caliper, or coil spring, or a weight.
I have identified the bracket as GM item # 18020428 and the spring as GM 18020409. The weight is yet to be identified.
The bracket is available through gmpartsdirect.com for less than $9 each. The spring is not available from either them or the local GM dealer, it has been discontinued. The weight is still unaccounted for. The service manager at the local GM dealer, a friend of mine, will perform a search for me.
So we have no e-brakes until I find the spring and weight, or an alternative to them.
There is no junk yard in my local area large enough to have parts such as this. Fortunately the springs are not LH or RH, so maybe a junk yard will part with a pair of them and the weights.

Thanks for the update and part numbers!

It sure is a PIA to get a parking brake to work. Figures why so many don't run them.

I just took my old rear end out last night. I've never tried to disconnect the rear parking brake cables before, I usually just cut them, :D . I didn't cut the cables this time, just the bracket that holds the end tab in, lol. Couldn't figure out any other way, graemlins/clonk.gif .

That's weird. The calipers Torker and I ordered from Rockauto included everything. The only thing needed was to trim a bolt and add the cables. There are identical to the parts supplied by Baer for the same conversion.

CarlC-
Perhaps you connected your e-brakes somehow without using the e-brake cable bracket and spring? Seems like it would be easier with the parts.

The "loaded" calipers that I received from rockauto did not include the bracket that supports the e-brake cable, the large coil spring, or the weight to reduce vibration.
They look just like the photos on Torker's web site.
Today I learned from my local GM contact that the spring part number has been replaced with 18020429. With this information both the brackets and springs can be ordered from gmpartsdirect.com for ~$35 total cost. I still don't know about the counter weight, or if it is absolutely required.
These few parts may be available in a junk yard, but not near my house.

Carl,

Did you guys use the stock drum e-brake cables?

You can probably use the 93-97 Camaro brake cables that attach to the calipers, and the stock 67-69 intermediate cable and connectors. The original drum connectors wont fit the e-brake brackets on the new calipers. I put the 93-97 setup on my 96 Jimmy but couldn't use the late model camaro brake cables because the parking brake cable setup is different on the Jimmy. Whatever you use, you have to be carefull about getting the cables adjusted equally (or use a setup that pull evenly like the stock setup), otherwise only one set of brake pads will engage and they won't hold worth a damn.

The E-Brake pedal also won't move very much once the swap is done, since the parking brake lever (and hence the cable) on the new brakes only moves about 1/2 to 3/4 of an inch. The ecentric on the pedal is much bigger than the one on the hand lever used in the late model Camaros. This causes the cable to move a lot farther per inch of pedal travel than it does on the late model lever version.

We had cables made by Control Concepts. They fit into the stock body bracket and attach to the stock intermediate cable using the same U coupling. Control concepts has a drawing that can be filled out for ordering.

I don't understand what the weight is. Any pics?

No mods necessary on my calipers to attach the cables. The slipped right into the caliper. I'll try and get a pic this weekend.

CarlC,

I think I can clear a lot of this up. I took another look at Torker's web site. The calipers pictured have the e/brake brackets, springs, etc. The "loaded" calipers that I received from RockAuto did not include these parts. I wonder if I called and complained on Monday they would do anything about it??
There is a wrecking yard ~ 2 hours away that will sell me the entire assemblies, RH & LH. I could then return the calipers for the core charge refund, and keep the needed parts. I still would need an additional RR bracket, available at the local GM dealer for ~$11.
I have already called control Concepts. He is supposed to be sending me the drawing to help with the ordering.
Maybe this will finally come together, although I am annoyed with RockAuto.

Does Control Concepts have a website?

Oops, I should have looked at the receipt or at Torker's website for the correct name.

http://www.controlcables.com//StoreFront.bok

X33,

Now things are making sense. There had to be something fishy going on.

If memory serves (it did not above) there are two different versions for replacement calipers. For those that want to save a few bucks there is a non-complete assembly that requires using components from the old calipers. The other version is the whole enchillada. A carefull viewing of the Cardone p/n - picture will help a lot. The part numbers on Torker's website.

Here's what the fully assembled caliper should look like:

OK, I went back to edit the post and it won't let me, says too much time has elapsed, so please excuse the spelling and grammar above.

Can't make the link show the picture, but what you want to look at is the A1 Cardone right rear caliper for a 1995 Z28 Camaro, P/N 164540 There is a view details button next to the part number. This will link to a picture of the caliper. This is the caliper to use for both sides of a staggered shock car.

CarlC-

But the problem is, I ordered the 164540 item number, my receipt shows that number. The empty carton says 164540 printed on it. I paid the $137 per caliper assembly. But I didn't get the required e-brake parts. You're right, all those parts are shown on their web site.
I am now even more annoyed with RockAuto and will be calling them tomorrow morning.

I'll bet they make it right. I've had multiple orders with them and they have had great service.

Good luck.

Also, for the e-brake cables, tell Control Concepts that you basically need the setup that Baer uses for 1st gen Camaros. It's the same thing, and it might cut down on some confustion.

CarlC & Co.-

I've been out of town all week and until now couldn't provide an update.
Monday I called Rockauto. While I had printed photos of the loaded calipers from their web site, I requested that their sales rep view the same photos. I pointed out the specific e/brake brackets and springs and thought she understood. After putting me on hold for a few minutes she returned to declare that Cardone would send me a complete accessory package. I hung up feeling like a very satisfied customer.
Well the package arrived and included the basket, sliding shafts, mounting bolts, rubber items, etc. but no e/brake parts.
More discussions on the phone yesterday afternoon couldn't convince the RockAuto rep that the specific e/brake parts pictured on their web site should be included. I requested that the discussion move up the chain of command and was told they had already departed for the day (it was late in the afternoon) and they could call me back early next week.
I then called the Cardone technical support line. Turns out that Dan, the tech rep I spoke to, is the proud owner of a '68 Z28, which is in the beginning restoration stages. He says that the assembly list of these loaded calipers do not include the e/brake parts, which puzzles him too, considering that they are pictured. He will contact the rebuild shop early next week to see if these parts can be located for me.
Maybe I will still receive these parts from RockAuto or Cardone, I haven’t given up yet.
So.. All you people out there that want to mount the mid 90's rear disks on your car be aware that you might have to source the e/brake items individually.
I have not yet mounted the brackets to the rear end of the car. I want to see how the whole assembly fits, and relocate the driver’s side to a more horizontal position.
The saga continues.

I'm going to smart off here, (IN JEST), and say DOUG10's rear custom caliper brackets that he made for me to fit 1980 Cad. Seville e-brake calipers to 1989 Camaro 11.75" dia. rear rotors for my "pdqCBB REAR" set-up for my 12-bolt just seems like a whole lot less hassle..

BUT, I hope everything works out in the end and everybody is happy b/c to each his own..

pdq67

Well this would have been much easier, if the supplier had sent the complete assembly.
There is a lot to be said about just buying a kit with all the required parts for a disk brake conversion. If I were not already invested in this direction, I would consider your Seville set-up.
Who can advise me how to run the new hard lines along the rear axle? I need some means to fasten the hard lines to an eyelet at the end points where the flex lines attache.

Thank you!

I used a SS worm drive radiator clamp (actually a 4" HVAC clamp from home depot). I drilled a hole in the clamp for a small bolt and nut and bolted the stock bracket to the clamp. The 4" clamp is almost to big though, as I had to tighten it all the way to the end of the slots in the clamp. A 3" might be a better size.

You put the screw clamp around the rear axle assy? I have no stock brackets either. Gotta get more parts.

pdq,

The Seville rear swap will work only if a stock, or similar, Seville front caliper is used. Gauranteed that they will cause spinouts if used with a PBR caliper.

As for routing the lines, check out the picture on Torkers website. He used a stock type line attached to a tab welded to the top of the axle tube. I used AN bulkhead fittings and flexlines. Hardlines are routed along the axle tube in the stock bent-tab location.

Good luck on getting the order resolved. It's a really easy swap if the caliper is complete.

Yep, put the clamp aound the outside of the axle tube. All I was trying to do is to keep the hard line from flapping around, and I didn't want to weld anything to the axle. I think the original F-body bracket is two parts, one that is welded to the axle, and the second one that holds the line bolts to the first one.

This is on my 96 Jimmy that I put the 93-97 Camaro rear calipers on, along with 98+ S-10 dual piston caliper front brakes on. The original brake setup on these trucks stink. Probably why they shifted to bigger front brakes and rear discs after 98.

This isn't my truck but this is where I got the idea.

http://jwvess00.home.insightbb.com//jay/truck/brake/rinst1.jpg

Not what I was expecting, but that screw clamp idea does look effective. I may have to revert to that since I don't have a welder.
I will look at Torker's site again too. It would be nice to create some kind of bracket that utilizes an existing bolt.

One more note.... Upon receipt of the '95 Camaro loaded rear calipers I noticed the two brake pads don't want to stay in place. Instead of staying square to where the rotor would be, the bottom part of the pads, with the coil spring retainers, will flip inward toward each other.
Is this common with this caliper? Seems it will continious rub on the rotor making friction, heat, and wearing the pad and rotor quickly.
The photos of the assemblies don't reveal any missing parts. It seems there should be something there to keep them firmly against their backing pad.

Mark,

A word of caution using the clamp as shown. Hardlines are not intended to be structural. Connection points, especially where the flex lines attach, should have a fixed mounting point. If not, the hardline has to take any bending loads. In this case there is little movement, but it's good practice to error on the side of caution, especially with brakes.

Check the street rodder mags. They have lots of neat stuff that should suit your needs.

I figure a regular old muffler clamp will clamp the little "L" bracket good enough..

Might not look very good tho??

pdq67

X33D80 - Any update on the calipers? I just purchased a front C5 setup off eBay and now I'm looking to start procuring rear disc parts. Just wondering if the fully fully loaded calipers like Carl and Torker purchase are still available.

Spitfire44 -

The folks at both Cardone and www.rockauto.com (http://www.rockauto.com) tell me that although the e/brake bracket and spring are shown in the photos they are no longer included when purchasing the loaded assemblies. The brackets and springs are available as seperate pieces from www.gmpartsdirect.com, (http://www.gmpartsdirect.com,) as detailed above, for ~$50 including shipping.

Spitfire,

Are you going to use a C5 caliper, and C5 rotor? Or are you going to use a 13" C4 rotor?

I'm going to run 17" ARE wheels, which I hear wont clear the C5 set up, but will with the C4 rotor. Just not sure if a C5 caliper will work ok on a C4 rotor. And if the caliper brackets that need to be made, are similar.

I am planning to run the '02 Z28 LS1 12" front rotor and caliper assembly. I learned that the LS1 Camaro has a 1" bore in the master cylinder. A 1" bore master cylinder isn't hard to come by, and the appearance under the hood can be made to look more original to my car.
I can proportional valve the rear lines.
I will need assistance from you guys in selecting a preoperational valve assembly that the front lines route through. Any suggestions or guidance?

How about no front prop valve and just an adjustible one for the rear. Many go this way, as have I, works well.

I agree with Mark, no valve on the front. The rears need to be tuned that the fronts lock before the rear to avoid spinouts.

Do either of you have photos of your proportioning valve set-up? I thought the front had to route through some kind of block, for reasons I don't clearly understand. Perhaps that is just to divide it from one line to two lines??
Please remember that when I purchased my car all these parts were already stripped from it.
Without the experience of disassembly, reassembly is a little more challenging.

Mark-Actually I bought the LS1 Camaro setup like X33D80. I still have 15" Welds so I hope to fit the 12" rotor. I've been searching for wheels, but haven't found anything that I like and isn't tooooo much money. Tried the BMW wheel like everyone is talking about, but can't find the right backspacing. I would rather avoid spacers if I can. If I can get some 17" or 18" wheels I'll go to the 13" rotor.
The other thing I've discovered in doing this swap is there isn't a comprehensive list of what works with the C5/LS1 caliper. David have the C4 setup covered on his site. But I can only get bits and pieces for the C5/LS1 conversion.
From reading the posts it looks like DjD started to gather his own parts then went to a Touring Specialties package.

Photos on my website.

However, the car no longer has the stock spitter block. A T is used frame where the flex line for the LH side.

Spitfire,

You might want to check out Vintage Wheelworks. It's the wheel that's on my car. IMO, for the money they are by far the best deal around. The 17's will easily swallow a 13" C5 setup.

Carl-I've thought about those wheels. I keep going back and forth between a retro Trans Am look to something more modern.

X33,

I just come out of the m/c, to a "t", then one line to one wheel, other line to the other, smile.gif .

For the rear, I used this prop valve last time and liked it,

http://www.speedwaymotors.com/eCCStoreFront/smi/product_images/medium/91031357.jpg

It's from speedwaymotors.com . I like it because it's smaller, and looks a little more old-
style/stock.

Carl,

You're using C4 caliper right? I'd like to find more info on putting a C5 caliper on a C4 rotor. So the calilper gets mounted back further, to clear my wheels.

X33, the "block" you're asking about is mostly for the BRAKE light. The front and rear lines go thru, if there's a pressure difference, it lights the light on the dash. Later model cars used a combo valve that combined this with proportioning. If you want the light to work, I bet you could use a block from an older car, even a drum model, and then the rear only proportioning valve.

Thanks JimM for the "block" info. I have a friend with a back field full of old buicks, & I could probably find a block back there.
This is good to know, since I just received a full set of stainless steel hard brake lines, they are bent to fasten to one of those blocks.
You should see this guys '70 GS Buick, a convertible model w/ 4 speed. He says it is one of ~110 built with that combo.
I was considering buying this booster and M/C combo from eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33566&item=7948834357&rd=1
He says the M/C has a 1" bore. I think (and hope) this combination will support the LS1 front calipers, considering that the LS1 car has a 1" bore master cylinder.
I still don't have the e/brake parts, but Cardone is trying to fix me up. I'll call him again tomorrow. When installing the rear axle hard lines I will have to fabricate a bracket to support the hard line to flex line connection.
I should have the LS1 12" front brakes fully installed this weekend.
Hey, these brakes might just come together after all! Lots of work, but it sure is fun.

Yup, C4 on the front.

I'm unfamiliar with the C5 caliper. If memory serves it's a bit bigger. Why would the caliper be moved farther back? Farther inboard?

Carl,

If you look at this website, it explaines it pretty well. www.touring-classics.com (http://www.touring-classics.com)

Basically, the c5 rotor is smaller in diameter, but thinker.

The C4 rotor, has a different offset, so it moves the caliper further away from the wheel, to fit more wheels.

C5 caliper, is suppose to have more brake pad surface too.

I think Baer went to the C5 style caliper for their popular type kits.

I'll probably just go with the set up you used.

MarkM-
Where did you purchase the "T" for your front lines? I would prefer a "Y" type of splitter. The guy with the Buicks says he doesn't have a proportioning valve that will work with my car.
I see proportioning valves on eBay, but they all look different.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34199&item=4520863041&rd=1
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34199&item=4522096929&rd=1
Then you have the round prop valve that the rear lines run through: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=34202&item=4521124763&rd=1
I assume this would be replaced with the adjustable type as discussed above.

I just get my brake line fitting at my parts store. Napa usually has a good supply.

Not sure what a "Y" fitting would be. I've only seen that style withe fuel fittings.

I run my front line strait down to the top of the frame, then secure the "t" to the frame with a fabed bracket. Then run my lines to each front wheel.

Then off to the parts store I shall go. I would rather not cut these new SS brake lines, but it looks like I may have to. Your method would be clean, tidy, and rather easy.
I just gotta make sure these lines will reach direct to the M/C, they were designed to connect to a proprotioning valve below the M/C.

I didn't know you were using ss lines.

I think those need to be flared with a 37* flare, and use ARP type fittings.

I don't thing you can use the typical double flare, 45* fittings.

Mark,

SS can be used with a single flare using standard SAE 45* hardware.

MarkM,
The photo you posted looks like an industrial needle valve for FLOW control, not a proportioning valve for PRESSURE control. I've seen them listed in the Speedway catalog, but I'm not sure they are a "real" prop valve.

David

Originally posted by CarlC:
Mark,

SS can be used with a single flare using standard SAE 45* hardware. Cool, graemlins/thumbsup.gif .

I tried flaring it once, with a normal clamp together flare tool, and didn't have much luck. I guess a better or different flare tool is needed.

Originally posted by davidpozzi:
MarkM,
The photo you posted looks like an industrial needle valve for FLOW control, not a proportioning valve for PRESSURE control. I've seen them listed in the Speedway catalog, but I'm not sure they are a "real" prop valve.

David Hmmm.. Not sure. Any idea on how it operates as compared to a typical Wilwood type?

When I installed it, it looked like when you turned the knob, a 'door' type device droped down. The further you turned it in, the further down it droped.

Mark,

Do a search b/c I've posted info on several GOOD flaring tools after the trouble I had doing mine!!

Several of the guys chimed in here on this with real flaring experience too!!!

pdq67

Mark,

SS cannot be double flared reliably. It's too hard and has a tendancy to crack when trying to double flare. It is common practice to single flare SS tubing in aircraft applications.