What would be the benefit of using a coil over convserion kit similar to what Carrera and HAL shocks is selling rather than a set of adjustable Konis?

The two benefits I see are that with the coil over set-up, you can adjust ride height and the coil overs are probably lighter than the Koni and stock style spring.

Are there any real handling benefits? Is it worth the extra $300 or so. I don't really care about the coolness factor, I want results!!!

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Pearl blue & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

Gheatly, I installed a set of Hal coil overs for the ride height adjustment. I got tired of buying and cutting coils to make minor ride height changes. They offer manually adjustable shocks if you want. I'm sorry I can't tell you how they handle. Won't have my car running for about 4 months.

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68/Z28,35O LT1
RICHMOND 5 SP,

Hey, David,

Jump right on in here!!! With all due respect. pdq67

BTC, I was thinking along those lines. The ride height adjustability means much more to me than "wow, you have coil overs" does. But, if there is no real handling benefit, I guess I'll get the hacksaw out.

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Pearl blue & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 9/01/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

Gheatly, I started with firmer lowered springs from a catalog, cut off a half of coil and tried them on. They were too high so I cut off another quarter coil. I got fairly close this way, the problem was that one side of the car was slightly higher or lower than the other. I got the coil overs to make 1/4" type height adjustments. I wanted the driver side to be slightly higher than the passenger side (while empty). Hal offers big block or small block springs. The end coil is a smaller diameter than the rest of the spring giving it somewhat of a variable spring rate. I wanted the big block springs for their firmness but got the small block springs on their recommendations. The car sits low enough for me with the spring set to their lowest setting. I figured I could cut them if I needed them firmer or wanted to go lower. I might get dropped spindles to go lower. The coil over mount needs to be welded to the lower a arm.

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68/Z28,35O LT1
RICHMOND 5 SP,

What about the hidden weight jack in the spring pocket. I installed them on my 67, wasn't too difficult and it gives 4 to 5 inches of adjustment. they were around $45 each plus springs $68 each. The Thrasher has this type of setup. Chevy High Performance covered it in the december 1999 issue. I got mine and the springs from Landrum Springs. (404/622-9348 http://www.landrumsprings.com/index3.html
I just wanted to give you another option.




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Sean James
67 camaro convertible
454 - 700r4
4:10 12 bolt
69 Firebird

gheatly,

I have the Landrum adjustable spring spacers in my 69 also. I used their 600 lbs. 9.5" spring. I had to cut 1/2" off the male portion of the spacer as it was hitting the frame while I was searching for perfect adjustment. Don't cut yours unitl you trial fit! The only difficulty with this setup is that one must cut a heli-coil on the female portion of the spacer to fit into the frame. If you look up into the spring bucket you will see the need for the heli-coiled spacer. There is a 3/8" hole in the spring bucket at its highest point. I welded a stud onto the spacer to keep the spacer in place in the case of total suspension unloading. I was able to set the ride height exactly the same on both sides of the car. And if the springs should sag I can always adjust. Springs and spacers cost me $200. I'll shot you and e-mail with pictures of the modified spacers.

Joseph

The coil over shocks with the small OD springs concern me as the springs must be of very high quality or they will bend.
The weight stitting on the spring is considerable (moog lists the "load" at over 1600lbs EACH spring). When coil overs are used on race cars they are re located to the outboard end of the A frame as close as possible to the lower ball joint, so the car has less leverage and the spring sees less weight. Typical loads for a race coil over are probably 700lbs or lower.
I'm not saying the A coil over spring can't take the load just that most springs aren't designed for that much weight and must be re designed to handle it.

The Carrera coil over looks interesting, I like the larger spring.
The big load is on the lower shock bearing. If it isn't VERY heavy duty, it will wear out quickly. There is probably more pressure on the lower spring mount than the lower ball joint!
They don't say what the lower shock bearing is made of.
There is NO reason the coil over way is better, except for adjustability.

I like the landrum adjuster with shorter spring but haven't tried it yet.
I plan on ordering the special shorter 5" dia spring with a flattened and ground spring end on top.
I'll probably cut the top coil off an old spring and weld it to the adjuster and bolt it in place.
The adjuster I bought is flat on top and bottom, another type I have seen has a large od tubing welded to it.

It's very important to get the spring perches even height or the car will oversteer turning one way and understeer turning the other way.
David

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Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer



[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 11-27-2000).]

Thanks for the information on the Landrum adjuster. I have not heard of this set-up before. I like the cheaper price too.

Ghatly,Why fix something wich isnt broken...
I know its an old story but i personally dont see any benefit changing coilovers,Well tuned regular heavyduty springs will do the job,unless you need to change the height often.and David had some thoughts about reliability..

joni,

If there's no additional benefit, I'm not going to spend the money. I decided against the coil overs for this reason. I am interested in the Landrum adjusters because they will allow you to tweak your car's ride height.

I don't want to install and remove a set of coil springs several times to get the ride height exactly where I want it. It seems like it would be VERY easy to go thru several sets of springs or to wind up with a lopsided car. Also, with the Landrum adjusters, I should be able to adjust for spring sag as the springs wear.

So... my front end is set as follows:

- Hotchkis 1 1/8 hollow swaybar w/poly bushings
- 12:1 quick ratio power steering box
- Koni adjustable shocks (not coil over)
- Poly a-arm bushings
- Currently have stock replacement springs, but will likely get Landrum kit
- 245/50/VR16 tires on 16x8 repro Rally wheels

David, do you think the Guldstrand mod is worth the effort at this point? I seem to remember a post in which you said tires and swaybar were the biggest improvements you could make to a 1st gen front suspension. The mod seems like a P.I.T.A. to do and I don't want to expend the effort for a marginal increase in handling capability.

[This message has been edited by gheatly (edited 11-28-2000).]

gheatly,

Go with the $200.00 Pro-Motorsports Spindle extenders instead of the A-arm inner mount mod. Besides, they are removable and can be used on another car. IMHO. pdq67

It depends on how often you are going to USE all that cornering power and tire.

You have everything else on your list and you CAN get nearly the same cornering performance out of a non Guldstrand mod car if you crank in more static negative camber.

But you will have to put up with the excessive neg camber on the street which will probably cause tire wear on the inside edges.

When you put a wide tire on, you need a front suspension that will keep it flat on the pavement.
The stock tires were less than half as wide as what you will be running.

I think without the mod, the car will handle fine but when really pushed hard it will lose traction at the front sooner than a Guldstrand mod car.

The spindle extenders are a good option, they are just a bolt on. They probably raise the roll center more than moving the upper mount.

I cut off and lowered my upper mounting bracket and it worked very nice, looks stock.

It would be best to have the engine out to do the re welding of the mount.
David


------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

BTC
I may have seen your Camaro at Laguna Seca pits a couple of years ago?
I remember seeing a Camaro with Richmond 5 speed some mods were done to the tunnel to accomodate the shifter?

Can't remember the color was it black primer?
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer

The real disadvantage to just loppin' off a coil or two is the loss of stroke in the spring. True, it is somewhat stiffer, but it will NEVER perform as well as a spring designed for that specific height and rate. True coil-overs DO perform better and more consistent than cut springs with "heavy-duty" shocks.

You really should consider one of the coil-over setups out there, like Carrera's www.carrerashocks.com. (http://www.carrerashocks.com.) It is more money, but it's definitely worth it! It just kills me to watch people spend endless amounts of money to make a car LOOK great, but then want to skimp on one of the most important parts of how their car will drive.

[This message has been edited by ET (edited 11-29-2000).]

ET,

I don't really want to skimp on how my car handles, I just want to get bang for the buck. If I had the money, I would buy one of the new subframe assemblies currently available.

I decided to try and cut a coil out of my current springs and see if that gets me where I want. If not, or if I screw up a spring, I'll buy the adjustable Landrum set-up. If I get it right, then I will save a few bucks.

The bottom line is that I don't need my car to pull 1.0G right now. I would be happy with something in the .85 to .90 range. The incremental cost to get there is more than I want to spend on the front suspension at this time. I'm still paying for the paint job!

Gheatly,

Speaking of your paint job have you got any pictures of the new paint job yet?

------------------
Sean James
67 camaro convertible
454 - 700r4
4:10 12 bolt
69 Firebird

I will update my site tonight.

I went by the shop this last weekend and snapped some digital photos. All of the jamb areas were painted on the body. The the front sheetmetal will be painted this week and the body will be done next week after we assemble the front end clip this coming weekend.

A friend of mine and I are going to pull the subframe off, clean it up, and paint it with POR-15. I hope to get some good pictures on this process.

David, I wish you had seen my car in the pits. Unfortunately my only experiences at laguna seca were as a spectator. I enjoyed your web pages being a road racer at heart. Noticed your ran 10" front wheels. Did you ever have problems with the wheel bearings? I used to run 9" wheels with zero offset and they really ate up the bearings. I thought it might have been the offset and have since switched back to 8" wheels.

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68/Z28,35O LT1
RICHMOND 5 SP,

website updated

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Pearl blue & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 11/29/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

website updated

------------------
Pearl blue & white 69 Camaro with supercharged 350, Tremec TKO, and 3.73 12-bolt

See my website updated 11/29/00 at:

www.geocities.com/gheatly (http://www.geocities.com/gheatly)

BTC
I didn't have any trouble with wheel bearings. I ran an 8" wheel on the street and 10" all around for autocross. I used Corvette/Monza front slicks from IMSA race cars, bought them used.
I've got a pair off Al Holberts IMSA Monza, wonder if they are collectable?

I'd love to increase the wheel bearing sizes while re doing the car. I haven't found anything to switch to. I'm going to keep looking though.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327
69 Camaro Vintage Racer
65 Lola T-70 Can Am Vintage Racer