Hey all,

Now that my subframe is ready to go back together (as the coins start building back up), I'm making all those age-old decisions.

One is whether to keep the front springs which I'm going to guess are the original L6 engined springs. Past threads tell me they'll be fine with a small block. But I'm definitely wanting to lower the ride height front and back.
I'm not going to use drop-spindles, so cutting the springs is a cheap and easy way. I know what the spring rate is in stock form and that it'll increase as coils are removed. That's just common physics.

Taking into account that the Guldstrand mod to the upper a-arm mounting points is already done, and assuming the original springs aren't garbage, does anyone think I'll run into any problems cutting them by an inch? A 1" swaybar and poly front bushings are also part of the equation.

Yes, this is a "I'm a cheapo that wants to save hundreds of $$ to do the same thing." kind of question. I can't see spending a couple hundred bucks for aftermarket big-name springs when stock springs can be made to do the same thing for free.

Thanks



------------------
Joe
WCA Member
1969 Wallet Crusher
- HwyStar@Rochester.rr.com
- HwyStar@CarJunky.com
HwyStar's Garage! (http://hobbystage.net/camaro/hwystar)

I dont think you are going to get what you desire out of those springs. Doing the Guldstrand mod tells me you are expecting to better the handling of the car. I cant imagine 6 cylinder springs in a car with a small block are going to enhance handling or cornering and/or your other modifications you've already done. Spend a few now so you dont have to do it later.

------------------
Black 69 camaro

Joe, do a search for "Moog Springs", there are a few suggestions as to what rate to use and they only run about $60-$75 dollars.

I ran cut down 6 cyl springs with a small block and though the stance looked good, it drove horribly bouncing up and down like crazy and bottoming out the suspension on all but the smoothest roads.

The ones you have are likely 35+/- years old and worn out.....

------------------
Bret Copsey
'68 Camaro base coupe
'92 Caprice Wagon
'99 Venture Van

You guys both pegged what was going through my mind about using them. One, even cutting a coil and increasing their rate wasn't 'improving' them. And secondly, they'll still be 'light' springs. I know it's common to use them for a strip-only car for weight transfer. Even though I've got Federal-Mogul and Moogs web sites bookmarked, whenever I thought about replacing them I always thought about Hotchkis and other performance replacements that cost a bundle.
I was just trying to save some money and take a **cough cough** shortcut.
Thanks for saving me the hassle.

The exact factory rates are unknown, but Moog replacement spring numbers are often the same for some 6 and 8 cyl applications, and those rates are around the low 300's per inch. What varies more is the spring height.
I would NOT recomend a stock replacement Moog spring.

Moog 6308 379 lbs per inch, is a nice street cruser spring with good ride and will lower the car maybe an inch with a sb engine. I would consider this a minimum street replacement spring rate.

A better street rate for spirited street driving or a Camaro lowered by two inches or more, would be 450 to 550lbs for good handling with slightly oversize tires, 7 to 8" wide wheels.
Moog 5536 is around 500 before cutting, and maybe fifty lbs stiffer when cut and installed on a lowered first gen.

For fairly wide tires with rolled back wheelwell edges and 8" wide rims, a 600 to 650 rate is good. Hotchkis and Guldstrand sell springs in this range. These would work for street, road course, or autocross. Moog #6041 is a good choice.

CORRECTION:
Above is for SB Camaros, A BB Camaro should use one step stiffer spring, max would be around 700.


------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327 original owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-13-2002).]

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-13-2002).]

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-14-2002).]

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-18-2002).]

Ok. I'm not wanting to autocross and I don't want stock ride and/or height. Somewhere in the middle. It looks like the 6308's is a good choice.
Thanks David.

Although I'm not on the road yet with my 68, I used Moog 6308 springs and cut 1 coil out. Car seems to sit just right! Not too low. We'll see how they handle/ride next summer!

Robb

Whether I use the Moog or the Hotchkis 1907's, I'm getting at least 1.5" lowering. How did it affect ground clearances for headers, spoiler, etc. I realize most of the people that have done it only drive their car once in a blue moon to a cruise-in and probably watch their speed and every little dip in the road to keep from bottoming out. But I'll drive mine every day as long as there's no clouds in the sky. I'd hate to crunch a tube or smoosh a-arm bumpers all the time.

What do the people that have lowered their front (and rear) look out for with respect to the suspension itself and travel, etc? (I don't mean looking out for potholes/dips in the road) And will loading up the trunk with stuff affect anything? I'd love to be able to travel with 3 people and all our 'junk' in the trunk.

Thanks...



------------------
Joe
WCA Member
1969 Wallet Crusher
- HwyStar@Rochester.rr.com
- HwyStar@CarJunky.com
HwyStar's Garage! (http://hobbystage.net/camaro/hwystar)

On my 71 firebird I have hotchkiss big block springs(Pontiac 400, heavy) there is a lot of suspension travel, when i hit big dips on the freeway, it does kind of swing up and down more than i would expect, even with the super stiff rating, i have some weird motor mount setup that makes one side of my engine hang lower than the other, and one of my headers hangs to low, so that is totally flat on the bottom, hits almost everytime, i think if it was even it would onnly occasionly scrape, so i think the hothckis route would be the best, it isn't as stiff as you would expect, I am very happy, i would like the car even lower in the front, but i don't want bumpsteer, and that one header dragging on the ground

As crazy as this sounds, I'm not worried about how the car feels to my fanny. It'll have solid body mounts and subframe connectors. I want to shoot for handling and stance, and if the ride is kinda harsh, so be it. I'd hate to have that big-car swing that you have though. Has anyone else experienced that front-end float with Hotchkis stuff? Maybe stiffer shocks would help? Just guessing.
Thanks Cody.

I'm going to guess that the front-end jounce is more a result of inadequate shock damping.

------------------
Rick Dorion
69 RS Conv,355,Autogear M22,4.10's and I don't worry about stone chips ( yet ).

dave P,
does the moog 6041 have to be cut in a 67 BB ,what is the #rate on those springs.

thanks!

Correction, the info on rates I gave before is for small block Camaros. I would move up one spring in rate for a BB. While BB Camaros came with a 327 rate stock, that and the 6308 at 380 are too soft for a lowered BB.
That would make a 550 rate a minimum for a BB and 600 - 620 a nice street spring, I think guldstrand and Hotchkis BB springs are 700 in rate according to what I've heard.

A lowered BB Camaro needs more spring to keep the headers off the ground. If I were drag racing a lot only, softer springs and higher ride height is probably needed.
David

------------------
Check my web page for First Gen Camaro suspension info:
David's Motorsports page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/)
First Gen Suspension Page (http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/David_Pozzi/first_gen_suspension.htm)
67 RS 327 original owner. 69 Camaro Vintage Racer, 65 Lola T-70 Chev SB Can-Am Vintage Racer

[This message has been edited by davidpozzi (edited 09-18-2002).]