I'm new commer to the camaro world. I absolutley love them even though i'm a youngin. I have a 327 engine, small compared to yours probably. I'm looking to add horsepower without buying a stronger engine. I'm Getting ready to get a new air intake system but i really need help.
thanks

Welcome aboard!!

We need more info on just what your car combination is as well as what 327 motor you are starting with and what you want to do to your ride in general.

Then we can really get ta cookin' here..

Love them little 265, 283, 302, 307 and 327 motors....

pdq67

Why don't we start with what year car is it? Is it stock original or not, manual, 2 speed or 3 speed automatic? 2 bbl or 4 bbl carb?

We got a bunch a youngins hereabouts, so just let us know what you got and where you wanna go with it.

We gotta bunch o fine 327's, too, the can run reeeel good!

It's a 67 stock original, atomaitic 3 speed. 2 bbl. I want it to be a car to cruise in when wanting to, but when it's time to put the pedal to the medal, it will push.

Please post back the letters that are at the end of the VIN string so we can tell what motor you have.

They are on the pad that is above the pass. side upper water pump bolt.

pdq67

we still got 2 threads goin... but anyway.

How much you wanna spend? 327-210 2 bbl is basically crippled by the stock heads. To wake it up, heads, manifold, 4 bbl carb & matching air cleaner would do nicely. Edelbrock performer stuff is good for a beginner. 70 cc alluminum heads, performer rpm manifold, performer carb. The heads are about a grand, the rest is about $500.

If you're up to a cam swap, change that too.

If you just got the car, do a good tune-up first. Plugs, wires, cap and roter, all filters. Think about a Pretronix electronic ignition conversion or complete accell or similar electronic distributor.

I'm going to have to get to work on that, i'm getting a new air cleaner and the matching 4 bbl, would they sell manifolds and heads at a pep boys, or do i got to order that special. I see you have a 327, i'm sure your pushing out more than that huh.

For the top half, you can go to kragens, checker auto or whatever they maybe called in your town. The edelbrock performer RPM runs about $120 or so. A decent road carb will set you back about $256 or so. The heads you'll have to feel it out for what you want to spend. If your not out for total power. Locate a set of camel humps somewhere and have them checked out before the purchase if possible. Then get em rebuilt. Then step up to a better cam. perhaps something in a .440 lift or so. Get it in a kit with lifters and springs. Get all this together and then put on a decent exhaust system, or at least some headers. First though find those #'s Jim mentioned on the front pad. Specifically the two letters that are with them. those will let us know more about your motor. Just be prepared to dump $1200-$1500 to get this all done.

here i found some numbers on a panal on the drivers side right above what looked like a master cylinder those numbers ran as listed:
11e
67-12437
760-z
2lg
hope this helps.
ohh, and another thing, i don't have the original accelerator return spring, I have a spring on there i bought from a local store that looks nothing like what should go on there, if i got the right one, could that change something.

throttle return spring won't effect your performance.

The old LF7 engine has a few restrictions to it... there are a few basic (fairly inexpensive) things you can do to wake it up a bit and then there are a few more involved (more expensive) things you can do.

Some easy items.

1. pull the old intake manifold and 2 barrell carb and replace with an Edelbrock Performer manifold (part #EDL-2101, costs about $115), and around a 600cfm 4 barrell carb. (Edelbrock Performer Carb #EDL-1406 costs about $265, or could go with a comprable Holley). Get a matching 14'' air cleaner and you're good to go.

This type of swap should pick you up about 20 horses and 20 pounds of torque.

2. headers and exhuast - taking off those old iron manifolds and putting on a free flowing exhaust will pick you up some power... and perhaps make your car loud. tongue.gif Some cheap headers can be had for $150 and a complete Flowmaster exhaust will run about $250.

Now... to get a little more involved...

1. swap cams - the stock cam you've got is very mild. Popping in a slightly bigger cam, new lifters and springs should help out a bit. This isn't particularly expensive... but requires some special tools and some know-how. If you want cam suggestions, there are lots of people who can offer them. In my opinion keep duration at .050'' around 212 - 220 degrees. Comp XE256 would be a pretty good pick.

2. cylider heads - stock heads have tiny little intake ports (around 140cc) and tiny little valves. Putting on some aftermarket cylinder heads will net a big gain in power. There are lots of options here too... keep intake runner volume around 170-180cc.

Also, with cylinder heads and cams... you must pay attention to your engine's compression ratio... in stock configuration it is around 8.5:1 - this is about as low as you want to go. A big cam may bleed cylinder pressure hurting performance. Likewise, getting cylinder heads with bigger combustion chambers will reduce compression... ideally you will want to find heads with a slightly smaller chamber to bring compression up a little (to around 9.5:1 or thereabouts).

I don't purport to be an expert. This is just what I would do.

Good luck! graemlins/beers.gif

Again....

Please post back the letters that are at the end of the VIN string so we can tell what motor you have.

They are on the pad on the block headgasket deck that is above the pass. side upper water pump bolt.

They decode car/truck, year, size/hp and maybe what carb. and tranny it originally came with..

pdq67

Madhatter, facing the motor from the front. Find the water pump. Look up and left of it at the head. at the front base of that head, the engine block will stick out about 1/2 inch. Look down from above at that spot and you'll see some #'s ending in two letters.. Thats what pdq67 is talking about.

hey boodlefoof,would it be better if the intake was outside the hood, or should it stay under. And if i buy a flowmaster, will i have to change my twin dual exhaust or can i just get the chambers.

here is the exact model intake assembly i'm thinking about getting, it is the elderblock, 5.125 air horn, 14 inches in diameter, width is 3 inches. think this will be good.

ohh and you guys said you needed the last four numbers on the vin number. i have the vin number on the certificate of title, and there arn't two letters at the end. anyway the vin number is 124377n143075.

nope, wrong. need the info on that front right pad. letters will be like: ME, MO, ST or something like that.

are you talking about an intake manifold or an air cleaner? It sounds to me like you are referring to an air cleaner... companies now days are marketing "intake" kits for newer cars which is just an air cleaner and a pipe... the actual "intake" is right on the engine. The nomenclature can be confusing.

The intake manifold is the piece under the carb. You do not need one that sticks out through your hood... in fact, that would be bad in your application.

Before doing anything to the car, I'd suggest reading up as much as you can on the subject. You might go out and look for a book on small block Chevy engine building. You can find them at your local bookstore in the transportation section. David Vizard's book is very informative.

The numbers we are looking for should be on the engine block... directly in front of the passenger's side cylinder head.

If it's the original engine those numbers could be underneath a lot of grease and junk. Get a rag and start cleaning where others have been directing you. They shouldn't be too hard to find. Good luck! smile.gif

boodlefoof, i'm talking about the air intake. but i most likely will get a new intake manifold. I'll start grease cleaning to find those letters.

Guess we haven't got the letters yet??

pdq67

you guys I think I finally found the leters it is t0b02gf. took long enough huh!!!

I got a question for you guys, I bought a fuel line filter, and I was looking at the fuel line, it is not clamped in any way to the carbertor, i'm pretty sure it's supposed to. Is it supposed to be? ohh and i found the letters you wanted, they are t0b02gf.

i think th GF code is a 283. thats the only use of that code i can find.
283's are cool too, my first 68 i built a pretty snappy little 283 for it. it would be nice if you could get some casting numbers off the back of the block to confirm the engine, but i'm thinking 283.

Dang thats really disapointing, I've been tricked. When i bought the car it had a 500 in it. They took it out and put that in! Ohh well I'll have to make the best out of that little thang until i get that engine back

hey, do any of y'all know if a 283 runs in the v6 catagory, or the v8 catagory? Please tell me it's runs in a v8 catagory, because there is know reason to have a chevy and have a v6 in it.

The 283 is in the V8 category. I hope others here ask some more info on your engine, with a code of "GF," the block could be from a '57 Chevy with Fuel Injection, but doubtful.

Your block has side mounting pads for the engine mounts, '55-'57 have no side bosses to bolt up engine mounts.

Well, if the GF is what's there, we need more info, and to rethink everything. We've been running on the assupmtion we were dealing with a stock 327-210 2 bbl, and it just don't seem to be so. Anyone run the date code?

Double check that GF. use some solvent and a toothbrush to clean the pad, and maybe a magnifying glass to read it.

Next one is in the back of the block, behind the drivers side head. It's a 7 digit # cast into the cast iron (raised letters) If you open the hood, and look down between the end of the hood and the firewall, you should be able to see it. You may have to pull the wiper motor, there may also be lots of crud that needs to be cleaned off.

With the block casting number and the code & date off the front of the block, we'll be able to tell you the year, HP, and original car line the block came from.

Then we need the head number. It's between the 2nd and 3rd rocker arm on the left side of the heads, under the valve covers. Pull which ever cover is easiest, front on drivers side, back on pass.

Problem with 35 yo cars is, ANYTHING could be in there... all small block V8's look the same.

500? Somebody had a Caddy motor in there?

If it has 8 cylinders, it will be a V8. Of course, there are other 8 cylinder formations than the "V," but they are less common.

Actually the engine is pretty clean, It actually looks new, there is know doubt in my mind that that doesn't say gf. And I asked the person who changed the engine out for me and he said that it was a 283. But i'll look where you told me to, to get the info you wanted.

You seem confused or suprised about what motor was in the car at the beggining.

And I need to know, i was looking at the fuel line and there was nothing clamping it down to the carberator. I'm pretty sure something supposed to be there.

It's a 67 stock original, atomaitic 3 speed. 2 bbl. From your first posts, we've (except for pdq67) been assuming you had an original 327 2 bbl, 210 hp motor (the only original 2 bbl camaro motor). Sometimes it's bad to assume.

Your engine could be ANYTHING, or even a conglomaration of parts from a number of different engines, and could have been changed over considerably over the years.

Would really be a bummer, for example, to suggest you dump a grand to replace some 1.7" intake valve, 76 cc chamber 2 bbl heads, and then have you find, when you pull them off, that you have 1.94" valve, 64cc fuelly heads on the motor....

I can't recall if my old carb fuel hose had a clamp on it, but it probably isn't a bad idea to put a hose clamp on it if it doesn't have one.

I too had been assuming you had the 327 base V8 for the '67. Sounds like someone has changed things up on you.

The reason I sounded surprised at the 500 being in there is that there isn't a standard Chevy combination that comes out to 500 cubic inches. There is a Caddy 500 engine however. Very uncommon to see one put into a Camaro though, although I have heard of it being done before.

As others have said... first you need to figure out exactly what you've got.

Aside from the block numbers, you might also want to look at the cylinder head casting number. You can find it by removing the valve cover (just 4 bolts around the perimeter). This might give us a better idea of what you're starting with. Word of caution - when replacing the valve cover... don't overtighten the bolts... graemlins/thumbsup.gif

I was surprised and confused just like you guys, i wonder why they would put that in there, im definatley buying a new engine. Since i'm replacing the valve covers anyway, i'll look for those numbers.

you've decided not to work with the engine you have then? You are going to replace it?

I'm still going to work with this engine, in the near future i'm going to buy a new one. What i will probably do is after i've fixed the engine i have now up and i'm ready to buy the new one, i'll sell it, and then buy another one.

If the 283 works why fix it?

If you are looking to go fast what is your budget? and what are your goals for the car?

Now that we think we know what engine you have we might be able to help more if we answers to the above questions.

Just wanted to say that I have a '68 base model(2bbl, mono-leafs etc.). I put in an Edelbrock Performer Cam, Edelbrock Performer Air-Gap intake and a Holley 670 carb and I got great results. Nothing to radical but definitely fun to drive. I will be honest though, I wasn't thrilled with the Holley. I went with the Street Avenger and basically I think it's crap. I wish I would have stuck with Edelbrock or maybe a Road Demon. Good luck with your ride madhatter. graemlins/beers.gif

my budget is around two thousand. I want the car to be a street cruiser, but then also able to go down to blow somebody out of the water if they challenge me. (legally of course)

[ 12-07-2004, 07:48 AM: Message edited by: themadhatter ]

It's going to be hard to make you real competitive with a 283 and $2k. There are a couple ways you can go IMO

you can put the money into your existing 283 and hope for the best. Heads, headers, cam, etc. maybe nitrous. But you will always be limited by the size of the engine. You will have to keep the cam and heads on the small side to match the engine or you will wind up with a high RPM boat anchor. Take about 10* off the cam that you would use for a comparable 350 and keep the intake runner size on the heads down small like 170cc. Combustion chambers also need to be very small to build compression -- like down around 54cc IMO

OR you can start with a bigger bottom end like a 350 or maybe a 383 or 406 if you get lucky. If you are a good bargain shopper you might be able to scare up a used 350 shortblock for $500 or so, some used aftermarket heads for about the same, then put the rest of your cash into the valvetrain and other nuts & bolts.

Good luck.

Everyone is being real cool about helping with your project, so I guess you know you are in the right place. I might suggest you join the local Camaro club or street machine club to help enhance your knowledge. Blowing anyones doors off these days can be decievingly risky because there is some amazingly hot stuff out there- much of it import! My first Camaro back in 1980 was a '69 with a six banger. I built up a 327 with flat tops (~ 10:1 compression), early "double hump" heads with some bowl work done,Z-28 aluminum intake, Holley 780 vacuum secondary carb., headers, .480" lift, 230' at .050", 108' lobe center cam, Turbo 400 trans with 3500 stall converter, 4.10:1 10 bolt Posi, and a Mallory dual point distributor. The car was not " bad" as we used to say, but it was very fun, and won a few street skirmishes. And there were plenty out there that would just leave me in their dust.Just a few thoughts to chew on, and good luck! Remember the fun part graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Rob

Madhatter, I see you are in Chula Vista. I'm in Scripps Ranch about 15 miles north of you. I'm working on my 67 stock coupe with a 327, 2 bbl, 3 speed power glide (measily 210 HP). I'm stripping her down now and am working on the engine, exhaust, tires and interior. Money goes quick with these cars so choose wisely.

I've already changed the Oil/tranny Pan/gasket, dipstick assemblies, heater core and added a Permatex Electronic Ignition conversion. Not to mention a ton of simple cleaning.

Another thing to take into consideration is the interchangeability of your parts on a new motor. I'm looking to Cam up my 327, put some 462 Camel Humps (with roller tips), headers, flowmaster dual exhaust some type of cool air high rise intake and a 650 cfm 4 bbl (or better) carb topped off with a 6 speed tranny and a 4/10 rear end. This way I can haul *** when necessary and save gas on the freeway too.

The other reason why these parts are important to me is that I can easily bring them with me when I upgrade to a 350 since the small blocks are pretty interchangeable with their parts.

I'm gussing my drivetrain alone will cost me about 7500 bucks without the 350 engine block upgrade. Slap in there a 1000 bucks for interior and 3000 for paint and I'll have my high school dream car underway. Of course it will never be finished because it is a hobby.

I'd like to check your ride out sometime when you get it ready.

Also, check EBAY for some good deals but only buy from reputable dealers if you can.

I found someone who is supposed to be the best mechanic in san diego, he's going to work on the car, but as he works he teaches me, sometimes he teaches me stuff so I won't have to pay him to do it. I feel his will help me out greatly

best way to do it is to have a mentor!

OK guy's!! That was why I kept asking....

Now, all we gotta do is find out what year the block is and if he wants to, maybe he can bore it an 1/8th over and make either a 301/302 or 327 out of it or step up to the plate and see if a 350 or even a 377" rotating assembly can fit in it!!!

The rounded down at the bottom of the cylinders, 283 blocks should be able to go .125" over with .030" left over if he wants to do it this way instead of picking up a cheap 350 core motor to work with.

The flat bottomed down at the cylinders motors won't take the 327 crank's counterweights b/c there isn't enough room..... Sorta deal is all...

pdq67

PS. and I will say, a 301/302 and 327 ARE FUN MOTORS!!! Love them little motors..

Hmmmmmm.......let's see, 283 crank & rods, 66 327 block, Z28 302 pistons & cam, 2.02 or 1.94 heads......= fun!

I'll talk to him about putting other parts on to bump it up to a 327 or even a 350 like you said. That would be great. How much do you think that kind of stuff would cost.