http://www.fordvehicles.com/autoshow/index.asp?bhcp=1

Click on the Trilogy Race video

oh yeah graemlins/thumbsup.gif . thats what i'm talkin about! wake up GM graemlins/boring.gif .
but hey, the new gto is coming graemlins/sad.gif

Cool video... Before everyone goes off on the general to bad remember, one is a prototype, one is in the $150K range and the Mustang, performance wise is just catching up with a 2 year old Camaro... graemlins/clonk.gif

i appreciate the undying love for the general dennis, but in all honesty, any catching up in performance was already done by the previously released cobra. and as for the SS, remember, saleen is a factory warranteed production car too. :D
i like 'em both, i own a ford and a chevy, so i guess you can call me devils advocate (among other things ;) )
i'm disapointed in gm though, my 5 liter mustang owned the irocs in the day, then the 4th gens came out, thats the general i know and love. ford would sometimes get it right then GM would step it up. what happened to GM? not only is there no more camaro, but not even a stinkin prototype to get us worked up.
i still love the general though, but i'm waiting to see some action out of them graemlins/beers.gif

At least Chevy has the Aveo.
If I see another commercial for it, I think I'll puke.

Sean, Sean, Sean, Ye of little faith!! It takes a LONG time to come up with a new car that will scorch the competition. I say the Camaro/or similar hi performance r/w drive will be coming out in the next few years, then everyone who's been ranting about how crappy the General is will be trying to say oh yeagh look at that new ride, I never doubted they would spank Ford, etc, etc.
GM is a reactive type company, and not a front runner. Ford will release their retro stang, then GM will wait for the perfect opportunity and launch some awesome performer of their own. And as for the Aveo...well that's just GM's answer to the Festiva tongue.gif

Dan B

Yes, but did the Festiva NEED an answer? tongue.gif

he he dan, i figured i would be hearing from you on this tongue.gif . next time we meet up i think i'll drive the 5 liter ;)
i agree, GM will be back, i just hope its sooner than later.
by the way dan, hows the ride coming along? last weeks sun had to get your blood pumping a little graemlins/thumbsup.gif

Originally posted by travis:
Yes, but did the Festiva NEED an answer? tongue.gif Maybe not, BUT the Festiva was FORDS answer to the Yugo.

With respect to Mustang vs. Camaro, I see a p*ssing match coming on.

I defer my response to Calvin.

As far as GM being "reactive", thats probably right on. Except they seem to be reactive as a neccessity, instead of by design.

When they knew the Mustang was coming, they didn't get reactive right away...they already had the Corvair, right? Oops!

There were, what, a MILLION Mustangs sold before the Camaro made its debut?

Now that the new Mustang is coming...well, GM already has the SSR, right? Oops!

Dodge has had the Viper out for a long time, and made great hay. Ford finally has a Viper-Killer ready, which should be awesome: the GT (40).
So,... what GM needs is to re-create the Chaparral for the street smile.gif
Not that I'd be against a new ZL-1 Camaro, as long as its 427 ci or more!

I think the General would be wise to reincarnate a classic line with an all new big block monster in it. Something like 500+ horse in a retro looking ride. Say something like a 55 with an all new nasty assed grill and killer suspension. Man if I could only draw what I am thinkin! tongue.gif

Cool Video

I'm sure you guys have seen these GM videos as well...

SSR Soap Ad (http://www.chevrolet.com/library/commercials/images/soap_hi.mov)

Chevy Aveo - little ad (http://www.chevrolet.com/library/commercials/images/little_hi.mov)

Chevy Ad (http://www.chevrolet.com/library/commercials/images/extended_hi.mov) - Extended 2:00 version (11 MB)

I think 2007 will be the year for the new Camaro. I don't think the General will miss a 40th year anniversary.

Originally posted by rojo:
I think 2007 will be the year for the new Camaro. I don't think the General will miss a 40th year anniversary. I wouldn't count it as a 40th anniv, considering they skipped a few years :(

I don't care what GM comes out with, I'm not buying it period!!

Over-priced and the long term quality flat sucks, imho!!

Aveo my a--!!

Yes, it's a defunct Diawoo(Sp?) Corp. car made in So. Korea.. At least you can get parts for the now defunct Suzuki/Metro corn-poppers..

I'm now off my rant and outta here!!!

pdq67

I expect to see a 40th anniv. Camaro.

I also LOVE the new 'vette.

The thing that irks me about Chevrolet is "why is the SSR so expensive". IMHO, that is the vehicle to lure young males today back to american iron. But priced at 40K+ it's aimed at the income levels of 35 - 45 year old professionals (like my self), most of whom would rather buy a beemer (myself not included there). I think they should have down rezzed it to keep the cost down and not have overpriced it for their target group.

JD

John,

Sounds like you hit the nail on the head!!

I will bet a six pack of your favorite against a donut hole that in about 5 years there will be a whole lot less of them jobs you are talking about b/c of outsourcing so just who does the General think they are going to sell $50,000 vehicles to???

Of course, if you only design tooling to last for a production run of say 100,000 vehicles, you automatically limit availability of something AND that just drives the price up for the people THAT want it AND can afford it!!! The affluent will naturally bid the prices up!!

Go figure......

pdq67

The SSR was NEVER intended to be a race car! It is a cruiser. if they wanted it to go fast, they would have put a much bigger engine in it. I personally wouldn't buy much of the new stuff coming out of GM, but I don't think that they're dead either. People are buying the SSR and the GTO and when they finally get a winner, I bet it will smoke the new retro Mustang...and Sean, thanks for askin about the 69, it's coming along great! I think you should drive over here and bring your best D.A. sander :D But if you come over in the 5.0...well I'll have to make you park around back tongue.gif

Dano

No one doubts GM can build a performance car, they just can't sell one.....

The Mustang gave up some ponies toward the end of the Camaro's run, but Ford always could move the metal. If the Camaro/Firebird sold well it would still be made.

And it didn't take very long to bring the GT to production. GM needs to take a page out of the book from Mopar and Ford :D

tongue.gif dan.
hey, paint and body is one area i have not ventured yet, maybe i could use a little practice, since thats the next major undertaking for my car. glad to hear its coming along though! one of these days i'll have to come check it out graemlins/beers.gif

Check out the Chevelle SS article in Chevy High Performance this month. Apparently, a very similar car is being produced in Australia currently....damn aussies! graemlins/angry.gif
http://www.chevyhiperformance.com/chevyhighperformance/toc/148_cover_pl.jpg

Looks sorta like an Impala.

graemlins/boring.gif

Personally, adding stripes is not the answer to GMs problems.

With a partial list of GT40, Mustang, Viper, Crossfire, the ___???___ (funky open wheeled roadster). These each reflect a bold design statement. I guess I'll be called a heretic but I think the new SSR almost fits in the PT Cruiser category and not in the list put above here.

Retire the Chevelle and the Nova names. GM can think up all sorts of crazy, weird names all day long to sell their next ho-hum, eco, egg shape, boring cars. Keep the names that mean sonmething in terms of performance on stand by and get going on some new stuff. Stuff that actually has an identity, a statement, a look that says Camaro, Chevelle and Nova.

I think today, Ford has it all. Even their little play car, the Focus has an identity. It doesn't look like every other small car out there. You see it and you know it's a Focus. They turned their trucks around also. Good for them.

In the end, the competition will only make GM better - I hope.


Rick

Originally posted by OverAnxious:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by rojo:
I think 2007 will be the year for the new Camaro. I don't think the General will miss a 40th year anniversary. I wouldn't count it as a 40th anniv, considering they skipped a few years :( </font>[/QUOTE]Never thought of it like that. But it would have to be a 40th something another. What's a good word/term?

technically, there never was an 83 Corvette either, but they still count off the anniversaries on that model. despite the fact that there was a break for a year while they re-tooled the factory.
you know, it seems like threads very much like this one pop up about once a week or so, and everyone always says the same things- new cars with old names are bad. and there are always the people that say that anything new is bad, despite the fact that those new "boring" cars would wipe most of our 35 year old "performance" cars off the road in pretty much any forum except maybe styling- and that's subjective, usually based on whether or not you can afford one of these new muscle cars or not- drivability, acceleration, cornering, braking, and comfort are all better in the newer cars.
i can't afford a new GTO, SSR, Corvette, Silverado SS, Viper, SRT 10, Lightning or Mustang- but i sure as hell would get one or more of them if my financial situation suddenly changed. well, maybe not the SSR. i just can't see the point in that one.
and if you think the cars of today are boring- imagine what the people that grew up with cars of the 50's thought of the cars of the 60's- the 50's were all big cars with lots of chrome and big fins- where the cars of the 60's started to downsize and lost a good chunk of their chrome in place of more horsepower than anyone ever imagined anyone would ever want or need before. sophistcated names like "Bel Air" that used to be on the top of the line performance cars were suddenly used on low option station wagons and low performance 4 doors, with the performance models getting new "silly" names like Chevelle and Camaro.
you can follow this evolution to today thru the 70's, 80's, and 90's. todays performance vehicles might not be the musclecars of yesterday, but they are better in more ways than they are worse. they are different, but yet they are the same, and GM is definitely trying not to look like it is getting left behind.

Well said Novaderrick! I wonder how many people who bash GM have driven an SSR or a new GTO? Yeagh the viper is cool, but it costs more than 90% of us "average Americans" could afford. I have seen the GTO at a local dealer a while back. It was LOADED with creature comforts and is pretty dang quick! By comparison, I think that the "T-Bird" is priced similarly and I have seen those up close and don't think they're all that!
Everyone has their opinions...I'm just waiting patiently for something better out of GM in the performance department before I plunk down big coin smile.gif

Dano

If I hit the On-Star button and it said I won, would I be smilin'? You bet!

My point was that of a strong product indentity. I'm not resistant to change at all. Go to the Pontiac web page and look at the mid size cars. You'll see the Grand Am, Grand Prix and the GTO together. They look the same. I don't mean they carry a common brand characteristic, I just think they look the same.

I am not trying to convince you or bring you over to my opinion, I'm just trying to better articulate mine.

How 'bout this. You own a car museum. You can only add six cars each year to the collection. How has GM done each year when statcked up against everyone else? Does the GTO go in before the Mustang?

I'm not asking GM to have a smash hit with every single car. I'm just longing for the day when the come back with the a change that was a dramatic as the C4 to the C5. (How can they call the new C6, a C6?) graemlins/sad.gif The 94-97 Impala. Camaro.

As much as the SSR doesn't float my boat, I will say that it does have it's own identity and GM took a bold step forward. It doesn't look like an exact or paternal twin, it doesn't look cloned. In ten years, would I buy one for 9K? Maybe the 2005 Mustangs are running at that used price. Hmmmmmm.

The new GTO is not even available in Canada. What's sense in that. They built the F-Bodies 20 mins away from my house since 93 and the car they replaced it with isn't even sold in Canada. (Looks like a big Sunfire anyway)

I predict a short run for the SSR - how many folks will pony up $55,000 (plus the $10K the dealers are adding on) for a 5,450# (almost three TONS) 2-seat mini-pickup with no space in the bed for anything bigger than a tire? I don't think it will take long for everyone who wants (and can afford) one to get one.

When I was the Viper/Prowler Plant Manager, we predicted it would take 5 years and 9,000 cars for the Prowler to fill its niche, and we hit it pretty close - took 6 years and 10,100 cars at $39K each, and we built out. I don't think the SSR's niche is that big.
graemlins/beers.gif

Let's not forget the Generals engineering & success with the Vette. It is a contender with the viper and cars of the like.

I think the Camaro will come back with some retro styling. When? Don't know. I fear the SSR might leave a bad taste in GM's mouth to explore performance/styling in the future if it flops. And it may, for the reasons JohnZ mentioned.

even if we get a new camaro
what are the chances that gm won't f@ck it up?

I'm not holding my breath

and the gto is anything but inspiring (I got a ride)

Originally posted by JohnZ:
I predict a short run for the SSR - how many folks will pony up $55,000 (plus the $10K the dealers are adding on) for a 5,450# (almost three TONS) 2-seat mini-pickup with no space in the bed for anything bigger than a tire? I don't think it will take long for everyone who wants (and can afford) one to get one.

Hi John... how's that book coming along?

Don't you think the that 20+ year old males would buy an SSR if it was priced low to mid 20's, had a removable hard top (instead of the obviously expensive automatic one), an LS-1, cheaper interior and no hard tonnue cover? It's designed to ride on 20's but say it comes pre lowered w/ 16's (let the kids save up for their own mags and rubber). I find it hard to beleive that they couldn't sell 50,000 or more of these things to todays Rice Boys. I just don't get why it's so pricey. :eek:

John

Originally posted by fast:
even if we get a new camaro
what are the chances that gm won't f@ck it up?

I'm not holding my breath

and the gto is anything but inspiring (I got a ride) There's no need for language like that!! Surely you can think of another way to express yourself! graemlins/clonk.gif

Sorry Dennis,

I feel the same way but try to do a better job of containing myself....

pdq67